Westside Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
I use Westside and don’t use artificial means of recovery and still recover just fine between workouts. There are so many people that have gotten ridiculously strong, regardless of gear and steroids, using just the Westside System. Without “modifications” or whatever other words people use on the internet to get around not understanding a program.

It is definintely not just for advanced lifters. It is for smart lifters.[/quote]
I think most folks that try it don’t do the necessary work to recover (prowler, SMR, stretching/mobility, taking a walk with a weight vest, etc…) and thus they trash themselves over and over.[/quote]

I’d say this is pretty accurate. I know I have trouble finding time to get anything other than SMR/Stretching/Mobility in. I’d be interested to see this other component laid out from those who run Westside.

Right now I run:
Monday: ME Bench
Tues: Upper back work/core work
Wed: ME Squat
Thurs: Off
Fri: DE Bench
Sat: DE Squat
Sun: Off

I figure the most appropriate time to add in prowler work would be on Sundays and I could walk with a weight vest most mornings I suppose. Thoughts?
[/quote]

Get it in whenever you can. Keep in mind that you are training many skills at once so the emphasis needs to shift every once an a while. For example, you want to add in prowler work and weighted walking to increase GPP right? If your GPP sucks and you add in more work on top of what you are doing already to increase your GPP you are going to crash and burn. I suggest planning out a cycle with the focus of increaseing GPP with a secondary emphasis on the actual powerlifts. Using the principles of the Westside Method, it is pretty easy to do this in your next training cycle:

DE Squat/Deads/Benches- lower the percentages, increase the sets, decrease the rest periods. I like to shoot for at least 25 sets of 2-3 reps with around 50% and switch the bars every week on bench and squats. Try to beat your time every week. Week 1 might be 25 sets with the SSB in 25minutes. So, the following week, try to beat the 25 sets in 25 minutes with a cambered bar. Still focus on speed. Try not to focus on how bad you want to throw up.

Max Efforts- Stick with 3rms and 5rms

RE work- Super high reps and very general exercises- this would be a good place to add in the prowler.

I would suggest something like that set-up for at least one cycle, then start adding in prowler work on one or two off days.

As far as the mobility work, just pick a muscle group you want to stretch and stretch the shit out of it for 5 minutes. Then go on with your day. Pick a different muscle group the next time and do the same thing. You be surprised how much you can get in a day.[/quote]

Much appreciated. The prowler work is there for GPP but I hadn’t planned on having this cycle be GPP oriented. Prowler is one of those things I like to keep in year round, maybe dropping it out the last 6-8 weeks before a meet or at least reducing the volume.

Thoughts on traditional GPP work in non-GPP phases?

Also what is traditional cycle length for you?

22

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve run it though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have the progression factor down quite as well as I’d like.

23

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve run it though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have the progression factor down quite as well as I’d like.[/quote]

I would agree that progression is one of the bigger challenges. Right now my progression consists of keeping track of what I did last time on a particular ME movement (1RM or 3RM) and trying to beat it.

So far, this has worked well. My structure is loose, and I’m kind of flying by the seat of my pants, but I’ve made more progress, based on 1RM, in the last 4 months or so than I did on a year + of another program. Plus I’m not bored.

24

I would love the input on a proper Westside template…I think that will get me to the next level.

25

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve run it though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have the progression factor down quite as well as I’d like.[/quote]

I would agree that progression is one of the bigger challenges. Right now my progression consists of keeping track of what I did last time on a particular ME movement (1RM or 3RM) and trying to beat it.

So far, this has worked well. My structure is loose, and I’m kind of flying by the seat of my pants, but I’ve made more progress, based on 1RM, in the last 4 months or so than I did on a year + of another program. Plus I’m not bored.
[/quote]

Same here.

I’d say the major components to think about regarding dedicated cycles would be:

Maximal Strength
Speed
GPP
Technical

Any one bloc should have one of these as a major focus. I generally do what you do but that will only work for so long. Eventually other components will be the limiting factor and thus must be considered.

STB has given thoughts on GPP phase, and what you and I have generally done is targeted towards Maximal Strength phase. Now the question is how to gear the bloc towards speed (especially in terms of ME training sessions) and technical ones. Also if there are any blocs I might be missing then they’d need to be taken into consideration.

26

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve run it though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have the progression factor down quite as well as I’d like.[/quote]

I would agree that progression is one of the bigger challenges. Right now my progression consists of keeping track of what I did last time on a particular ME movement (1RM or 3RM) and trying to beat it.

So far, this has worked well. My structure is loose, and I’m kind of flying by the seat of my pants, but I’ve made more progress, based on 1RM, in the last 4 months or so than I did on a year + of another program. Plus I’m not bored.
[/quote]

Same here.

I’d say the major components to think about regarding dedicated cycles would be:

Maximal Strength
Speed
GPP
Technical

Any one bloc should have one of these as a major focus. I generally do what you do but that will only work for so long. Eventually other components will be the limiting factor and thus must be considered.

STB has given thoughts on GPP phase, and what you and I have generally done is targeted towards Maximal Strength phase. Now the question is how to gear the bloc towards speed (especially in terms of ME training sessions) and technical ones. Also if there are any blocs I might be missing then they’d need to be taken into consideration.[/quote]

It wouldn’t surprise me if I hit the wall. Right now I’m just basically going hard on ME days, fast on DE days, trying to pick the best assistance exercises and doing high rep RE work.

I would like to understand how best to maximize the Westside approach so I can continue to progress, perhaps at a faster rate than I am now. I’m old, I’m running out of time :slight_smile:

27

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

x2. PLEASE do this

28

[quote]xdsho wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

x2. PLEASE do this[/quote]

x3!!! Storm…gasp…I am ready to wire you MONEY, FOOD, DRUGS, you name it, if you wanna do this!

29

I am by NO means a Westside expert, but I do train with some westside guys every Sunday. My current setup look like this.

Sunday ME BENCH
Choose a ME exercise for the day and work for a 1RM, or a max double, or a max triple, hell sometimes a max set of 4,It really depends on how we feel that day. If things are feeling heavy to soon, it might be a good day to go for max triple and get some work in. Adding heavy doubles and triples has really helped me out here. I like to rotate exercises atleast every 2 weeks, sometimes weekly. ( Shirt to chest, or 1-3 boards, heavy chains, bands, hanging bands, slingshot, close grip incline) just pick one. We normally have about 12-15 guys on ME day and run 2-3 benchs, each bench doing something different.
After bench I hit the tri heavy( CGB, CGB with bands to 3 board, JM press, skull crusher with bamboo bar). I follow that with more tris ( tates, dips, rollbacks, pressdowns). From there I like to hit some vertical press couple heavy sets. Then some heavy upper back work. Finished up with some ab work.

Tue DE Squat
I generally box squat trying to stick to the 50,55,60% wave, added band tension, 9-11 sets of 2. Then speed pulls generally 50% for maybe 5 sets of 2. Then some high rep quad work, several sets, working thru the burn. Then is hamstrings,on DE day I like to throw in some single leg work here either band or machine, like 4 sets of 8. Then some kinda lower back work, higher reps 3-4 sets. Some heavy shrugs several sets of 12-15. Some kinda biceps work, several sets of 10-12. Ab work

WED DE Bench
Pretty standard here, some where around 50%, 9-12 sets of triples, rotating grips every set, always with bands or chains. DB work for reps(Inc/Dec/Flat) several sets of high reps again working thru the burn. Next up tris, I pick 2 exercises and hit 3 sets of each with 10-12 reps. Rear delts several sets 10-12. Shoulder work, plate raise, lateral raise several sets of 8-12. Some lighter upper back work several sets of 10-12. AB work again.

Fri ME Lower
This is much like the bench day, and variation of squat or DL, singles, doubles, triples, just depends on how I feel. When I hit a 1RM here, I like to drop 10% and do 3-4 more sinlges. 4-6 sets of heavy hamstrings. 3-5 sets of heavy lower back. 3-5 sets of heavy upper back. Generally I hit 3 sets of 10-15 Hammer curls and some more ab work.

Ab work is always rotated, heavy as possible at times, alot of standing ab work. Between days I do some various stuff depending on how i feel, you gotta be able to listen to your own body. I walk 4-5 miles, tire flip, box jump, farmers, sprints, prowler pushes. I like to stretch and foam roll whenever possible. I keep a foam roller in my living room, find that it makes me more likely to use it.

30

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

  • This will keep your training maxed out but varied w/ some rest in between. Most guys can’t handle the workload of maxing out every week regardless of the movements changing regularly. Remember, this is a very advanced program and done by lifters who can recover very quickly thru artificial means. Listen to your body and brain.
    [/quote]

Where’d you come up with this one? I’ve trained with a lot of drug free lifters who haven’t had a problem recovering despite maxing out every week. I don’t have any special or artificial recovery methods other than stretching frequently and foam rolling. Well, that and drinking a lot of whiskey every Friday night.[/quote]

It is common for lifters to burn out and hinder recovery from lifting too heavy too often. Steroids aren’t just for muscle growth, but aid recovery much much faster than anyone natural. I’m not labeling “all” people, but it is common for lifters to burn out maxing all the time. I know because I’ve done it and had to scale back.

31

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

This is not anything close to Westside. It is just pretty basic undulating periodization with some exercise variations thrown in.

I use Westside and don’t use artificial means of recovery and still recover just fine between workouts. There are so many people that have gotten ridiculously strong, regardless of gear and steroids, using just the Westside System. Without “modifications” or whatever other words people use on the internet to get around not understanding a program.

It is definintely not just for advanced lifters. It is for smart lifters.[/quote]

Westside is still periodization no matter how you wanna slice it. They still work in waves. And when we talk “Westside”, we talk conjugate method which IS variations of the main lifts that are periodized and rotation of supportive exercises. So to say the template is not WS is garbage. So I’ll say this correctly - it is the conjugate method. [/quote]

The conjugate method is just part of the entire westside system. That would be like saying, I’m doing Westside because I accommodate resistance with bands on every exercise or just because I use weight releasers (reactive method). Read Myslanski’s paper on the cojugate sequence system. It’s more that just variation in exercises.

You are 100% correct. Westside is a form a periodization. This is a big reason why a lot of lifters “burn out” and think you need to be on steroids or only use multi ply for it to work. Because they do exaclty the same training scheme for months or even years. You don’t always max out. You don’t always do Dynamic work for speed.

We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Well I know I mispoke saying “Westside” when I mean conjugate method. I guess simply put: I rotate exercises - sets and reps constantly in some form of periodization so I don’t burn out.

From my understanding, Westside is constantly changing and evolving per Dave Tate and according to him, unless someone is actually training there, we have no idea what is really going on there today.

I did not know there was a sequence to the conjugate method. I’ll look into that. Thanks.

32

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

  • This will keep your training maxed out but varied w/ some rest in between. Most guys can’t handle the workload of maxing out every week regardless of the movements changing regularly. Remember, this is a very advanced program and done by lifters who can recover very quickly thru artificial means. Listen to your body and brain.
    [/quote]

Where’d you come up with this one? I’ve trained with a lot of drug free lifters who haven’t had a problem recovering despite maxing out every week. I don’t have any special or artificial recovery methods other than stretching frequently and foam rolling. Well, that and drinking a lot of whiskey every Friday night.[/quote]

It is common for lifters to burn out and hinder recovery from lifting too heavy too often. Steroids aren’t just for muscle growth, but aid recovery much much faster than anyone natural. I’m not labeling “all” people, but it is common for lifters to burn out maxing all the time. I know because I’ve done it and had to scale back.[/quote]

If you don’t manage the workload and don’t change things then no shit. Westside has been working for non-juiced guys for years though. Hell it put 150 lbs on my total in 8 months when I made the switch.

33

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

Holy shit that is a great idea.
[/quote]

Agreed wholeheartedly. I’ve run it though I’ll be the first to admit I don’t have the progression factor down quite as well as I’d like.[/quote]

I would agree that progression is one of the bigger challenges. Right now my progression consists of keeping track of what I did last time on a particular ME movement (1RM or 3RM) and trying to beat it.

So far, this has worked well. My structure is loose, and I’m kind of flying by the seat of my pants, but I’ve made more progress, based on 1RM, in the last 4 months or so than I did on a year + of another program. Plus I’m not bored.
[/quote]

Same here.

I’d say the major components to think about regarding dedicated cycles would be:

Maximal Strength
Speed
GPP
Technical

Any one bloc should have one of these as a major focus. I generally do what you do but that will only work for so long. Eventually other components will be the limiting factor and thus must be considered.

STB has given thoughts on GPP phase, and what you and I have generally done is targeted towards Maximal Strength phase. Now the question is how to gear the bloc towards speed (especially in terms of ME training sessions) and technical ones. Also if there are any blocs I might be missing then they’d need to be taken into consideration.[/quote]

It wouldn’t surprise me if I hit the wall. Right now I’m just basically going hard on ME days, fast on DE days, trying to pick the best assistance exercises and doing high rep RE work.

I would like to understand how best to maximize the Westside approach so I can continue to progress, perhaps at a faster rate than I am now. I’m old, I’m running out of time :)[/quote]

Agree with this! The only type of “bloc” training I have implemented into my conjugate training is with DE Days, in terms of pendulum waves of changing from chains, to band variations, switching between two bar types (thats all I have) and box height.

I’m basically just doing that and on ME days switching out every week or two and hitting assistance work hard and doing some GPP with prowler. My query is on how to manage “blocs” or if what I am doing is even right in terms of longevity.

34

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

This is not anything close to Westside. It is just pretty basic undulating periodization with some exercise variations thrown in.

I use Westside and don’t use artificial means of recovery and still recover just fine between workouts. There are so many people that have gotten ridiculously strong, regardless of gear and steroids, using just the Westside System. Without “modifications” or whatever other words people use on the internet to get around not understanding a program.

It is definintely not just for advanced lifters. It is for smart lifters.[/quote]

Westside is still periodization no matter how you wanna slice it. They still work in waves. And when we talk “Westside”, we talk conjugate method which IS variations of the main lifts that are periodized and rotation of supportive exercises. So to say the template is not WS is garbage. So I’ll say this correctly - it is the conjugate method. [/quote]

The conjugate method is just part of the entire westside system. That would be like saying, I’m doing Westside because I accommodate resistance with bands on every exercise or just because I use weight releasers (reactive method). Read Myslanski’s paper on the cojugate sequence system. It’s more that just variation in exercises.

You are 100% correct. Westside is a form a periodization. This is a big reason why a lot of lifters “burn out” and think you need to be on steroids or only use multi ply for it to work. Because they do exaclty the same training scheme for months or even years. You don’t always max out. You don’t always do Dynamic work for speed.

We should get some people together on here that actually know how this shit works and start a thread about how to actually set-up and PROGRESS the Westside System. [/quote]

I would love to see this. A few guys here know my feelings on Westside, I’d love to see someone properly execute it…though I doubt there is “such a thing.”

35

I may get flak for this but here it goes.

Westside works and it does produce results but it’s only truly Westside if it is done AT Westside while being coached by Louie and the other lifters there. You hear all the time that the only way to truly know what westside is doing is to be at westside.

I think people look at their training methods as some sort of godly concoction when in reality they follow some simple ideas:

Lift heavy shit
Move lighter shit fast
Build more muscle
Get in shape

I think the true secret to westside success is the amazing coaching each lifter gets and the group of dedicated lifters working towards similar goals pushing each other to improve.

The actual training can be done anywhere and can be adjusted to meet a specific lifters needs (though this will be harder without good coaching). The atmosphere is crucial, and while one gym may be perfect for someone, it may be absolute shit for someone else.

Basically what I’m saying is, people put WAY too much effort into figuring out “westside.” We have seen time and time again that simply putting the effort in, regardless of training style will give results. Find a happy medium of speed, hypertrophy, max effort, and gpp that works for YOU, then find an atmosphere that will force you to give it you all everytime. Training, to me, is highly individualized.

Preparation leading up to a meet is a completely different story and is a subject that requires some research as well as some coaching from more experienced lifters. This could make for a good thread topic.

36

@ GruntOrama,

I enjoy the way you worded your post. This thread was beginning to get extremely confusing and the subject of westside has been beaten to death. There is more than one thousand ways to skin a cat. The conjugate method gives you all one thousand of those ways. Hell even plain old linear periodization is utilized sometimes in the conjugate method they just use fancy labels like “wave loading” etc.

K.I.S.S.

Chad Wesley Smith writes excellent articles on how to keep it simple and what exercises are great for strengthening your main lifts. Joe Defranco is also another great source of information he has written three different conjugate programs for free. If you are a powerlifter they are extremely easy to modify. Also, I don’t personally believe that you must do speed squats, and speed deadlifts every single dynamic effort lower body. Are plyometrics not good enough to build explosive speed? Most people in this thread, hell even this forum are not nearly strong enough to be worrying about sticking point training yet and massive amounts of speed work. A good coach once told me until you squat 500 raw, bench 405 raw, and dead 600 raw you do not need to focus on adding in 100 extra workouts and wave loading and bands and chains. You need to focus on getting stronger at the basics. I am by no means extremely strong, but those are just some of the things I have learned. I am interested to know when StormTheBeach began using the conjugate method and what his lifts where prior to using it? Or even some of the other more elite lifters that use the conjugate method I am sure they didn’t start rocking out with a 225 max bench.

p.s. I forgot to mention another great name of conjugate information. Coach Harry Selkow at Elitefts has an unbelievable log and is a ridiculously strong old man…

p.p.s. Programming prior to a meet I honest to God feel should be a matter of trial and error. Scared of having a poor performance? Your being weak minded… Failure is part of life, the sooner you begin to accept that. The stronger you will probably become… Getting ideas from experienced lifters is good, but they are just ideas… Everyone has them… Which ones are going to work for you though?

37

[quote]frankjl wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

  • This will keep your training maxed out but varied w/ some rest in between. Most guys can’t handle the workload of maxing out every week regardless of the movements changing regularly. Remember, this is a very advanced program and done by lifters who can recover very quickly thru artificial means. Listen to your body and brain.
    [/quote]

Where’d you come up with this one? I’ve trained with a lot of drug free lifters who haven’t had a problem recovering despite maxing out every week. I don’t have any special or artificial recovery methods other than stretching frequently and foam rolling. Well, that and drinking a lot of whiskey every Friday night.[/quote]

I am drug free, am a full time student, and I dont burn out every week…I must be doing something wrong

38

[quote]Rudy2401 wrote:
@ GruntOrama,

I enjoy the way you worded your post. This thread was beginning to get extremely confusing and the subject of westside has been beaten to death. There is more than one thousand ways to skin a cat. The conjugate method gives you all one thousand of those ways. Hell even plain old linear periodization is utilized sometimes in the conjugate method they just use fancy labels like “wave loading” etc.

K.I.S.S.

Chad Wesley Smith writes excellent articles on how to keep it simple and what exercises are great for strengthening your main lifts. Joe Defranco is also another great source of information he has written three different conjugate programs for free. If you are a powerlifter they are extremely easy to modify. Also, I don’t personally believe that you must do speed squats, and speed deadlifts every single dynamic effort lower body. Are plyometrics not good enough to build explosive speed? Most people in this thread, hell even this forum are not nearly strong enough to be worrying about sticking point training yet and massive amounts of speed work. A good coach once told me until you squat 500 raw, bench 405 raw, and dead 600 raw you do not need to focus on adding in 100 extra workouts and wave loading and bands and chains. You need to focus on getting stronger at the basics. I am by no means extremely strong, but those are just some of the things I have learned. I am interested to know when StormTheBeach began using the conjugate method and what his lifts where prior to using it? Or even some of the other more elite lifters that use the conjugate method I am sure they didn’t start rocking out with a 225 max bench.

p.s. I forgot to mention another great name of conjugate information. Coach Harry Selkow at Elitefts has an unbelievable log and is a ridiculously strong old man…

p.p.s. Programming prior to a meet I honest to God feel should be a matter of trial and error. Scared of having a poor performance? Your being weak minded… Failure is part of life, the sooner you begin to accept that. The stronger you will probably become… Getting ideas from experienced lifters is good, but they are just ideas… Everyone has them… Which ones are going to work for you though?[/quote]

Have you done “Westside” for an extended period of time? Or is your post based on what you have read on the web?

39

Have done the conjugate method for about 12 months now. Just sharing my experience and the experience of my training partners. Several of which have been training for over ten years. Don’t shoot the messenger!

40

Ok, I have some time today, I will start the other thread later… this one is making me want to kill myself.