Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hanley wrote:
DCR wrote:
Hanley wrote:
DF85 wrote:

5/3/1 is a life style.

It is??

It has changed my life and lifting forever. I dont know if its a lifestyle, but such a simple program has had a major impact

It’s changed your life??? Man I must be doing something wrong :slight_smile:

I don’t know if it’s changed my life … I don’t get that deep into the psychology of training. It definitely goes down as my new favorite program to pimp though!

This is interesting. My whole life has been about removing excess and being simple. While it is not necessarily a lifestyle, the program has roots in my own philosophy of life.

Ok that makes sense. Maybe I was talking from my arse … Maybe it has changed my life and I didn’t realize it - I’ve gotten much stronger, lost fat, became [relatively] faster, and spend less time at the gym.

I’m just finishing my 11th cycle. I’ve never had this much fun, with such long term results. The longest program I’ve done was Starting Strength for about 9 weeks.

I love to lift, and lift to live another day.[/quote]

Thats what I was talking about. Training is fun again. I hit PBs constantly, I am fitter (it doesnt suck to be alive and walk!), I am able to be more than just a “powerlifter” I have been able to add in highland games and strongman work.

I look forward to training again. And since training is such a large part of my life…life is great

Slowly making my way through the old thread and going to get the manual[s] when I finish moving [hate having to get my address rerouted].

Have a question i have been mulling over. My primary concern is my OL lifts, snatch and C+J. I’ve been looking at ways to transpose the simple uniqueness of 5/3/1 type methodology into my OL template.

Previous to this I’ve been using pretty typical russo-bulgarian intensity variation, including or simulating competition dates.

Now i was wondering if anyone else has tried, thought about or has an interesting observation/opinion on this issue.

I was thinking that I would include snatches and C+J as their own strain of variation and use the 5/3/1 template on the other core lifts, such as Squats, pulls, press’ and assistance etc. Alternatively i could use similar weekly progressions on the Snatch and CJ but take the reps down to where you would usually train the classic/dynamic lifts. One example might be 3/2/1/deload. I was thinking that maybe 2/2/1 would be better for the CJ since 3 reps of the full lift is a dick-buster. then again who says i cant use that conditioning [might prevent the dizzies on those ME attempts post clean].

Thanks for any help brainstorming and hooking me up with the science. Also thanks to everyone for contributing to one of the redeeming parts of T-Nation that keeps these forums from true degeneration. It’s all about the community.

In other news: Just so someone who will think it knows, Im not going to alter the program and call it 5/3/1 and say it doesnt work etc. etc. I’m just thinking conceptually as a coach and athlete and looking to the experience of the community and it’s veterans. I liked the concept and from all ive read Jim Wendler is far from a strict programming nazi that insists down to the pound. Far from it. So i figured it would be a good concept to play around with and see how it goes with the classics. Even so, I’m perfectly ok with doing 5/3/1 + Sn and CJ in front regular style.

have fun,

-chris

[quote]Avocado wrote:
Slowly making my way through the old thread and going to get the manual[s] when I finish moving [hate having to get my address rerouted].

Have a question i have been mulling over. My primary concern is my OL lifts, snatch and C+J. I’ve been looking at ways to transpose the simple uniqueness of 5/3/1 type methodology into my OL template.

Previous to this I’ve been using pretty typical russo-bulgarian intensity variation, including or simulating competition dates.

Now i was wondering if anyone else has tried, thought about or has an interesting observation/opinion on this issue.

I was thinking that I would include snatches and C+J as their own strain of variation and use the 5/3/1 template on the other core lifts, such as Squats, pulls, press’ and assistance etc. Alternatively i could use similar weekly progressions on the Snatch and CJ but take the reps down to where you would usually train the classic/dynamic lifts. One example might be 3/2/1/deload. I was thinking that maybe 2/2/1 would be better for the CJ since 3 reps of the full lift is a dick-buster. then again who says i cant use that conditioning [might prevent the dizzies on those ME attempts post clean].

Thanks for any help brainstorming and hooking me up with the science. Also thanks to everyone for contributing to one of the redeeming parts of T-Nation that keeps these forums from true degeneration. It’s all about the community.

In other news: Just so someone who will think it knows, Im not going to alter the program and call it 5/3/1 and say it doesnt work etc. etc. I’m just thinking conceptually as a coach and athlete and looking to the experience of the community and it’s veterans. I liked the concept and from all ive read Jim Wendler is far from a strict programming nazi that insists down to the pound. Far from it. So i figured it would be a good concept to play around with and see how it goes with the classics. Even so, I’m perfectly ok with doing 5/3/1 + Sn and CJ in front regular style.

have fun,

-chris[/quote]

Funny you should ask the question Chris - I’m actually running 5/3/1 alongside my OL stuff at the moment (fed up of my screwy shoulder messing up my overhead strength so decided to actually train my pressing for the first time in years and 5/3/1 looked like a straightforward way to approach it), although I’m not benching as that’s what messed my shoulder up in the first place. So I’m doing my OL stuff plus the front squat, overhead squat subbed for bench, strict press and clean deads, and the Boring But Big assistance. I have a silly strength:lifts ratio, so the reduced squatting frequency and lack of back squats actually suits me well at the moment. Plus I could do with the getting some reps in again.

As far a how to programme the OL stuff alongside it, I’m basically doing an 8 week cycle of 80/85/90/75/85/90/95+/75. I think it’s important to hit some heavy lifts in the OL stuff more regularly than the strength stuff to avoid getting to that point where you chicken out of 90% lifts because you’ve been spending too much time at 80-85%. I’m training 4 times a week, alternating between snatch and C&J for the first 3 days and then either snatch or clean pulls on the 4th depepnding on whether I snatched or cleaned on the 3rd. I figured I’m doing clean deads that day anyway so I may as well take advantage of that and use the pulls to warmup for it, plus it gives me the chance to have a lower impact OL day. I cut the last clean deads set short when I can’t hold position, rather than when the weight won’t budge.

3/2/1/deload is pretty much how I have the OL stuff too, though as you say triples in the C&J is for maniacs - one way to get round that is to do that week as 3+1 lifts. Works for me because my jerk is better than my clean, but if your clean is better than your jerk then 1+3 may work (although way tougher). For the 3rd session of the week I might power snatch rather than full snatch, or I might just clean and drop the jerks entirely. Obviously you can’t rep out your C&J like you can your squat, so I’m aiming on average for around 12 total reps at the top weight for the day, whether that be 4x3r, 6x2r, or 12x1r, although I do wave the volume over the course of 4 weeks.

I’m only on my 2nd cycle at the moment, but it’s going well and I’m enjoying the change of stimulus. I find I can push the volume on the OL stuff more without feeling sluggish next session, and body comp is starting to improve even though I’m still the same bodyweight (the no man’s land that is 81-82kg). I’m resting less between lifts, and my shoulder feels better than it has done in a long time too.

So, I’d say it’s definitely worth a shot. I think we do sometimes forget that there are other things in life than front squatting heavy singles 3 times a week.

[quote]ninearms wrote:
Avocado wrote:
Slowly making my way through the old thread and going to get the manual[s] when I finish moving [hate having to get my address rerouted].

Have a question i have been mulling over. My primary concern is my OL lifts, snatch and C+J. I’ve been looking at ways to transpose the simple uniqueness of 5/3/1 type methodology into my OL template.

Previous to this I’ve been using pretty typical russo-bulgarian intensity variation, including or simulating competition dates.

Now i was wondering if anyone else has tried, thought about or has an interesting observation/opinion on this issue.

I was thinking that I would include snatches and C+J as their own strain of variation and use the 5/3/1 template on the other core lifts, such as Squats, pulls, press’ and assistance etc. Alternatively i could use similar weekly progressions on the Snatch and CJ but take the reps down to where you would usually train the classic/dynamic lifts. One example might be 3/2/1/deload. I was thinking that maybe 2/2/1 would be better for the CJ since 3 reps of the full lift is a dick-buster. then again who says i cant use that conditioning [might prevent the dizzies on those ME attempts post clean].

Thanks for any help brainstorming and hooking me up with the science. Also thanks to everyone for contributing to one of the redeeming parts of T-Nation that keeps these forums from true degeneration. It’s all about the community.

In other news: Just so someone who will think it knows, Im not going to alter the program and call it 5/3/1 and say it doesnt work etc. etc. I’m just thinking conceptually as a coach and athlete and looking to the experience of the community and it’s veterans. I liked the concept and from all ive read Jim Wendler is far from a strict programming nazi that insists down to the pound. Far from it. So i figured it would be a good concept to play around with and see how it goes with the classics. Even so, I’m perfectly ok with doing 5/3/1 + Sn and CJ in front regular style.

have fun,

-chris

Funny you should ask the question Chris - I’m actually running 5/3/1 alongside my OL stuff at the moment (fed up of my screwy shoulder messing up my overhead strength so decided to actually train my pressing for the first time in years and 5/3/1 looked like a straightforward way to approach it), although I’m not benching as that’s what messed my shoulder up in the first place. So I’m doing my OL stuff plus the front squat, overhead squat subbed for bench, strict press and clean deads, and the Boring But Big assistance. I have a silly strength:lifts ratio, so the reduced squatting frequency and lack of back squats actually suits me well at the moment. Plus I could do with the getting some reps in again.

As far a how to programme the OL stuff alongside it, I’m basically doing an 8 week cycle of 80/85/90/75/85/90/95+/75. I think it’s important to hit some heavy lifts in the OL stuff more regularly than the strength stuff to avoid getting to that point where you chicken out of 90% lifts because you’ve been spending too much time at 80-85%. I’m training 4 times a week, alternating between snatch and C&J for the first 3 days and then either snatch or clean pulls on the 4th depepnding on whether I snatched or cleaned on the 3rd. I figured I’m doing clean deads that day anyway so I may as well take advantage of that and use the pulls to warmup for it, plus it gives me the chance to have a lower impact OL day. I cut the last clean deads set short when I can’t hold position, rather than when the weight won’t budge.

3/2/1/deload is pretty much how I have the OL stuff too, though as you say triples in the C&J is for maniacs - one way to get round that is to do that week as 3+1 lifts. Works for me because my jerk is better than my clean, but if your clean is better than your jerk then 1+3 may work (although way tougher). For the 3rd session of the week I might power snatch rather than full snatch, or I might just clean and drop the jerks entirely. Obviously you can’t rep out your C&J like you can your squat, so I’m aiming on average for around 12 total reps at the top weight for the day, whether that be 4x3r, 6x2r, or 12x1r, although I do wave the volume over the course of 4 weeks.

I’m only on my 2nd cycle at the moment, but it’s going well and I’m enjoying the change of stimulus. I find I can push the volume on the OL stuff more without feeling sluggish next session, and body comp is starting to improve even though I’m still the same bodyweight (the no man’s land that is 81-82kg). I’m resting less between lifts, and my shoulder feels better than it has done in a long time too.

So, I’d say it’s definitely worth a shot. I think we do sometimes forget that there are other things in life than front squatting heavy singles 3 times a week.[/quote]

Nice. Another thing that has presented itself since my post was that I could still do a 3/2/1 version on CJ but on the 3 day I would do cleans and jerks from the boxes/rack separately for 3 reps each. And or since i train on 4 days/week I could have a jerk and clean day. that might piss me off though.

Ill let you know the sound of it once i get a preliminary template put together. gotta find my wallet first though. no idea where i put that shit.

-chris

[quote]Avocado wrote:
Slowly making my way through the old thread and going to get the manual[s] when I finish moving [hate having to get my address rerouted].

Have a question i have been mulling over. My primary concern is my OL lifts, snatch and C+J. I’ve been looking at ways to transpose the simple uniqueness of 5/3/1 type methodology into my OL template.

Previous to this I’ve been using pretty typical russo-bulgarian intensity variation, including or simulating competition dates.

Now i was wondering if anyone else has tried, thought about or has an interesting observation/opinion on this issue.

I was thinking that I would include snatches and C+J as their own strain of variation and use the 5/3/1 template on the other core lifts, such as Squats, pulls, press’ and assistance etc. Alternatively i could use similar weekly progressions on the Snatch and CJ but take the reps down to where you would usually train the classic/dynamic lifts. One example might be 3/2/1/deload. I was thinking that maybe 2/2/1 would be better for the CJ since 3 reps of the full lift is a dick-buster. then again who says i cant use that conditioning [might prevent the dizzies on those ME attempts post clean].

Thanks for any help brainstorming and hooking me up with the science. Also thanks to everyone for contributing to one of the redeeming parts of T-Nation that keeps these forums from true degeneration. It’s all about the community.

In other news: Just so someone who will think it knows, Im not going to alter the program and call it 5/3/1 and say it doesnt work etc. etc. I’m just thinking conceptually as a coach and athlete and looking to the experience of the community and it’s veterans. I liked the concept and from all ive read Jim Wendler is far from a strict programming nazi that insists down to the pound. Far from it. So i figured it would be a good concept to play around with and see how it goes with the classics. Even so, I’m perfectly ok with doing 5/3/1 + Sn and CJ in front regular style.

have fun,

-chris[/quote]

I do 5/3/1 power cleans and snatches on my deadlift/squat days respectively. I don’t compete or was ever formally trained though, I just like to challenge myself with them and so far I haven’t noticed any drawbacks with my other main lifts and I’ve been increasing the weights on all of them.

Hey Jim,

I usually ask questions of you at elite, but I wrote this on my thread this morning. From a theoretical standpoint, do I have decent understanding? I likes to do me some thinkin sometimes, but I try not to let it get in the way of training. You don’t need to grade it, but I would like to know if my thinking is on the right track. Thanks for all you do.

[quote]ecogenx wrote:
You’ve been doing 5/3/1 for a while now. Whats your feeling about the program? My squat and deadlift responded well but my bench was stagnant. [/quote]

Hey Eco,
I am no trainer, so the following are my opinions based on what little I know, and stalking Jim Wendler on all the forums and sifting through his garbage once per week:
I think it depends on what your best lifts are. Depending on the lifter, I think it takes extra time to adapt to the higher reps. The reason for this, I think, is that for this program to work, you really need to build a solid base with the higher reps. Some lifters already have this base built, and they respond rather quickly. Others of us, who may or may not have done well in poundages without building the base, are now building that base before we can start making large progress. Using Boring But Big, instead of doing alot of isolation work, you are doing over 70 reps of a big compound exercise. This does much to build that base. But until that base is built, you don’t have large gains. Competitive lifters on 5/3/1 like Jason Pegg and Matt McGorry, being high ranking competitive lifters already, will start hitting PRs pretty fast, I think, because their base is already very solid. Check out The Unlikely Powerlifter at elitefts.com (matt mcG), he is frequently PRing. Pegg just started using it, but I would expect him to thrive on it as well.

So, for those of us who haven’t built up that base, we may not see major PRs until the 3d or 4th month. I have hit a couple, but not as many as I would like, or as many as Matt McG has. I have asked questions of Saint Jim on a couple occasions, and his replies to me, and others, indicate that some patience may be required. For instance, since my military is pathetic, I asked Jim if adding some additional shoulder work like side and back raises, would help. He said it would help more if I just kept up with the many sets of military.

I think that for the few people that have been using the program for many months (some guys are over 11 months) they are hitting PRs frequently. Again, i think because the base has already been built.

I do believe in the program, I have seen some moderate progress, and I’ll continue to use it for the foreseeable future. I feel better, and have less aches and pains than when I was trying to follow a westideish type of template. And of importance to me, since I train on my lunch break, I am in and out of the gym in less than an hour.

Sorry for getting long-winded. I have been dying to talk about this.

Later
old lardass

Anyone ever use 5/3/1 as their ME work for the squat+bench while following a westside template?

I started 5/3/1 a couple of months ago, but I go impatient and just kept going as heavy as I could each workout lol.

It feels a bit ‘odd’ to me using 315lb on squat one day, then the next session using a lower weight (even though im doing more reps). Thats the main thing I need to get over to stay consistant with this program.

I’m just a weirdo.

[quote]mjnewland wrote:
Hey Jim,

I usually ask questions of you at elite, but I wrote this on my thread this morning. From a theoretical standpoint, do I have decent understanding? I likes to do me some thinkin sometimes, but I try not to let it get in the way of training. You don’t need to grade it, but I would like to know if my thinking is on the right track. Thanks for all you do.

ecogenx wrote:
You’ve been doing 5/3/1 for a while now. Whats your feeling about the program? My squat and deadlift responded well but my bench was stagnant.

Hey Eco,
I am no trainer, so the following are my opinions based on what little I know, and stalking Jim Wendler on all the forums and sifting through his garbage once per week:
I think it depends on what your best lifts are. Depending on the lifter, I think it takes extra time to adapt to the higher reps. The reason for this, I think, is that for this program to work, you really need to build a solid base with the higher reps. Some lifters already have this base built, and they respond rather quickly. Others of us, who may or may not have done well in poundages without building the base, are now building that base before we can start making large progress. Using Boring But Big, instead of doing alot of isolation work, you are doing over 70 reps of a big compound exercise. This does much to build that base. But until that base is built, you don’t have large gains. Competitive lifters on 5/3/1 like Jason Pegg and Matt McGorry, being high ranking competitive lifters already, will start hitting PRs pretty fast, I think, because their base is already very solid. Check out The Unlikely Powerlifter at elitefts.com (matt mcG), he is frequently PRing. Pegg just started using it, but I would expect him to thrive on it as well.

So, for those of us who haven’t built up that base, we may not see major PRs until the 3d or 4th month. I have hit a couple, but not as many as I would like, or as many as Matt McG has. I have asked questions of Saint Jim on a couple occasions, and his replies to me, and others, indicate that some patience may be required. For instance, since my military is pathetic, I asked Jim if adding some additional shoulder work like side and back raises, would help. He said it would help more if I just kept up with the many sets of military.

I think that for the few people that have been using the program for many months (some guys are over 11 months) they are hitting PRs frequently. Again, i think because the base has already been built.

I do believe in the program, I have seen some moderate progress, and I’ll continue to use it for the foreseeable future. I feel better, and have less aches and pains than when I was trying to follow a westideish type of template. And of importance to me, since I train on my lunch break, I am in and out of the gym in less than an hour.

Sorry for getting long-winded. I have been dying to talk about this.

Later
old lardass[/quote]

It’s one helluva search but it think someone on the old 531 thread was talking about this. Ill let you know the page if i come across it again.

-chris

[quote]mjnewland wrote:
Hey Jim,

I usually ask questions of you at elite, but I wrote this on my thread this morning. From a theoretical standpoint, do I have decent understanding? I likes to do me some thinkin sometimes, but I try not to let it get in the way of training. You don’t need to grade it, but I would like to know if my thinking is on the right track. Thanks for all you do.

ecogenx wrote:
You’ve been doing 5/3/1 for a while now. Whats your feeling about the program? My squat and deadlift responded well but my bench was stagnant.

Hey Eco,
I am no trainer, so the following are my opinions based on what little I know, and stalking Jim Wendler on all the forums and sifting through his garbage once per week:
I think it depends on what your best lifts are. Depending on the lifter, I think it takes extra time to adapt to the higher reps. The reason for this, I think, is that for this program to work, you really need to build a solid base with the higher reps. Some lifters already have this base built, and they respond rather quickly. Others of us, who may or may not have done well in poundages without building the base, are now building that base before we can start making large progress. Using Boring But Big, instead of doing alot of isolation work, you are doing over 70 reps of a big compound exercise. This does much to build that base. But until that base is built, you don’t have large gains. Competitive lifters on 5/3/1 like Jason Pegg and Matt McGorry, being high ranking competitive lifters already, will start hitting PRs pretty fast, I think, because their base is already very solid. Check out The Unlikely Powerlifter at elitefts.com (matt mcG), he is frequently PRing. Pegg just started using it, but I would expect him to thrive on it as well.

So, for those of us who haven’t built up that base, we may not see major PRs until the 3d or 4th month. I have hit a couple, but not as many as I would like, or as many as Matt McG has. I have asked questions of Saint Jim on a couple occasions, and his replies to me, and others, indicate that some patience may be required. For instance, since my military is pathetic, I asked Jim if adding some additional shoulder work like side and back raises, would help. He said it would help more if I just kept up with the many sets of military.

I think that for the few people that have been using the program for many months (some guys are over 11 months) they are hitting PRs frequently. Again, i think because the base has already been built.

I do believe in the program, I have seen some moderate progress, and I’ll continue to use it for the foreseeable future. I feel better, and have less aches and pains than when I was trying to follow a westideish type of template. And of importance to me, since I train on my lunch break, I am in and out of the gym in less than an hour.

Sorry for getting long-winded. I have been dying to talk about this.

Later
old lardass[/quote]

This is all well thought out - not sure if this is the reason why his bench has stalled. Most people (no matter what program they are on) make slower gains on bench and military (or standing press) simply because the muscles used are smaller and less powerful. And patience must be used.

AND…

99% of people overestimate their bench press. They believe that it is in direct proportion to their penis size.

But getting to back to your point; a base is very important. I’m not sure if Boring But Big is the way to go but that is what I have most beginners do (or variations of it).

Jim, If you where dieting how would you change my assistance?

Monday:
-squat 5-3-1
-good mornings (fairly light, mostly use them to stretch)
-leg ext 3x20
-hanging ab raises 3x15

Tuesday:
-Bench 5-3-1
-Incline close grip (will get changed with close grip 2 board if I stall) 1x 10-15 rep set, 1x 4-8 rep set
-Db bench press 15-30RP
-Db power cleans 2x10-25

Thursday:
-deadlift 5-3-1
-45’ hyper 3x12
-glute ham raise 2x8-15

Friday:
-Overhead press 5-3-1
-Lat pulldowns 2-3x10
-chest supported DB rows or kroc rows 1x max reps
-RP preacher curls, or RP DB incline curls
-Hanging lat stretch

Would you use one of the 5/3/1 days as a deload where you only hit the perscribed reps? I saw that mentioned on Iron Addicts. I’ve been hitting at least the perscribed reps, but sometimes I’m too beat to even hit old PRs on some of the lifts.

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I started 5/3/1 a couple of months ago, but I go impatient and just kept going as heavy as I could each workout lol.

It feels a bit ‘odd’ to me using 315lb on squat one day, then the next session using a lower weight (even though im doing more reps). Thats the main thing I need to get over to stay consistant with this program.

I’m just a weirdo.[/quote]

If you are “going as heavy as you could”, then you’re not doing 5/3/1. Also, why would you use “less weight” from one week to the next? Each wave is set up with a progression of either 5% or 10% increments. It sounds like you are doing a bastardized version of the program.

Zep, when I started dieting I went to 5/3/1 3x a week and conditioning 2-3x. Down about 10lb in 6 weeks, actually managing to hit PR’s as well.

Cardio = 1 of - 2-3km run, hill sprints, skipping
Cardio’s selected on a feel basis…
Mega DOMS = skipping
DOMS = 2-3km run
Feeling fine = hill sprints

Not a fan or regular sprints because I found the deceleration phase a killer on my joints and recovery.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Zep, when I started dieting I went to 5/3/1 3x a week and conditioning 2-3x. Down about 10lb in 6 weeks, actually managing to hit PR’s as well.

Cardio = 1 of - 2-3km run, hill sprints, skipping
Cardio’s selected on a feel basis…
Mega DOMS = skipping
DOMS = 2-3km run
Feeling fine = hill sprints

Not a fan or regular sprints because I found the deceleration phase a killer on my joints and recovery.[/quote]

I’ll be using the eliptical 2-3 times a week. Everything else destroys my knees. Thanks for some perspective, I’ll think about it.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Zep, when I started dieting I went to 5/3/1 3x a week and conditioning 2-3x. Down about 10lb in 6 weeks, actually managing to hit PR’s as well.

Cardio = 1 of - 2-3km run, hill sprints, skipping
Cardio’s selected on a feel basis…
Mega DOMS = skipping
DOMS = 2-3km run
Feeling fine = hill sprints

Not a fan or regular sprints because I found the deceleration phase a killer on my joints and recovery.

I’ll be using the eliptical 2-3 times a week. Everything else destroys my knees. Thanks for some perspective, I’ll think about it.[/quote]

For cardio on this program I have been using the Prowler and much like the earlier poster how I use it depends on how I feel. Remember you don’t always have to push the thing like a maniac to get a good workout in.

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
I started 5/3/1 a couple of months ago, but I go impatient and just kept going as heavy as I could each workout lol.

It feels a bit ‘odd’ to me using 315lb on squat one day, then the next session using a lower weight (even though im doing more reps). Thats the main thing I need to get over to stay consistant with this program.

I’m just a weirdo.

If you are “going as heavy as you could”, then you’re not doing 5/3/1. Also, why would you use “less weight” from one week to the next? Each wave is set up with a progression of either 5% or 10% increments. It sounds like you are doing a bastardized version of the program.

[/quote]

You didn’t read what I said very well at all.

I WAS doing 5/3/1, but I ended going as heavy as I could each workout - Therefore I gradually stopped doing it.

And I didn’t say from one week to the next, I said from one session to the next.

I was just getting at that I need to keep my patience in check to consistantly stay on this program.

[quote]Apostate wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Zep, when I started dieting I went to 5/3/1 3x a week and conditioning 2-3x. Down about 10lb in 6 weeks, actually managing to hit PR’s as well.

Cardio = 1 of - 2-3km run, hill sprints, skipping
Cardio’s selected on a feel basis…
Mega DOMS = skipping
DOMS = 2-3km run
Feeling fine = hill sprints

Not a fan or regular sprints because I found the deceleration phase a killer on my joints and recovery.

I’ll be using the eliptical 2-3 times a week. Everything else destroys my knees. Thanks for some perspective, I’ll think about it.

For cardio on this program I have been using the Prowler and much like the earlier poster how I use it depends on how I feel. Remember you don’t always have to push the thing like a maniac to get a good workout in.
[/quote]

Yeah resisted sprinting/pushing/etc. is defo the optimal form of cardio in relation to keeping your knees in good shape. If im doing level ground sprints i always take a full length to decelerate. So if i run a 40 i take an extra 40 to stop. and then continue all the way around the track.

-chris

Just wanted to give some feedback on the program. I did my first 2 cycles, no deconditioning, since I’m usually a workhorse. In retrospect, I probably should’ve deconditioned some after week 3. For assistance work, I did mechanical drop sets in weeks 4, 5 and 6, and - until I started getting burned out in week 5 - ran sprints 2-3x a week. So, overall the program was very taxing and I might go with more basic assistance work for the upcoming cycle.

As of Cycle 2 I beat my rep PRs on bench, front squat and deadlift, while maintaining on military. I got absolutely beastly gains on my deadlift. I estimate that in 6 weeks my 1RM jumped up by 10-15kg, or 22-33 lbs. Gains in bench and military came hardest of all, but those are my weakest natural lifts to begin with, so even the ~10 lbs I got on each are awesome.

Definitely gonna keep at it for at least 2-3 more cycles, at which point I may go for a more growth-oriented program. Then again, 5-3-1 gets you stronger consistently, so I may just stay with it and do higher-volume assistance work.

I know Jim has mentioned 5-3-1’ing back work; has anyone tried doing this concurrently with the other 4 lifts? i.e. having it as a 5th lift in the 5-3-1 template? I’d be really interested in doing it on the same day as military press, because I really need to improve my vertical pulling.

[quote]G87 wrote:
Just wanted to give some feedback on the program. I did my first 2 cycles, no deconditioning, since I’m usually a workhorse. In retrospect, I probably should’ve deconditioned some after week 3. For assistance work, I did mechanical drop sets in weeks 4, 5 and 6, and - until I started getting burned out in week 5 - ran sprints 2-3x a week. So, overall the program was very taxing and I might go with more basic assistance work for the upcoming cycle.

As of Cycle 2 I beat my rep PRs on bench, front squat and deadlift, while maintaining on military. I got absolutely beastly gains on my deadlift. I estimate that in 6 weeks my 1RM jumped up by 10-15kg, or 22-33 lbs. Gains in bench and military came hardest of all, but those are my weakest natural lifts to begin with, so even the ~10 lbs I got on each are awesome.

Definitely gonna keep at it for at least 2-3 more cycles, at which point I may go for a more growth-oriented program. Then again, 5-3-1 gets you stronger consistently, so I may just stay with it and do higher-volume assistance work.

I know Jim has mentioned 5-3-1’ing back work; has anyone tried doing this concurrently with the other 4 lifts? i.e. having it as a 5th lift in the 5-3-1 template? I’d be really interested in doing it on the same day as military press, because I really need to improve my vertical pulling.[/quote]

weighted chins are in my program so far for july as a 531 lift.

-chris

[quote]Avocado wrote:

weighted chins are in my program so far for july as a 531 lift.

-chris[/quote]

Thanks, Chris. Are they in as a replacement or an extra?