[quote]ninearms wrote:
Avocado wrote:
Slowly making my way through the old thread and going to get the manual[s] when I finish moving [hate having to get my address rerouted].
Have a question i have been mulling over. My primary concern is my OL lifts, snatch and C+J. I’ve been looking at ways to transpose the simple uniqueness of 5/3/1 type methodology into my OL template.
Previous to this I’ve been using pretty typical russo-bulgarian intensity variation, including or simulating competition dates.
Now i was wondering if anyone else has tried, thought about or has an interesting observation/opinion on this issue.
I was thinking that I would include snatches and C+J as their own strain of variation and use the 5/3/1 template on the other core lifts, such as Squats, pulls, press’ and assistance etc. Alternatively i could use similar weekly progressions on the Snatch and CJ but take the reps down to where you would usually train the classic/dynamic lifts. One example might be 3/2/1/deload. I was thinking that maybe 2/2/1 would be better for the CJ since 3 reps of the full lift is a dick-buster. then again who says i cant use that conditioning [might prevent the dizzies on those ME attempts post clean].
Thanks for any help brainstorming and hooking me up with the science. Also thanks to everyone for contributing to one of the redeeming parts of T-Nation that keeps these forums from true degeneration. It’s all about the community.
In other news: Just so someone who will think it knows, Im not going to alter the program and call it 5/3/1 and say it doesnt work etc. etc. I’m just thinking conceptually as a coach and athlete and looking to the experience of the community and it’s veterans. I liked the concept and from all ive read Jim Wendler is far from a strict programming nazi that insists down to the pound. Far from it. So i figured it would be a good concept to play around with and see how it goes with the classics. Even so, I’m perfectly ok with doing 5/3/1 + Sn and CJ in front regular style.
have fun,
-chris
Funny you should ask the question Chris - I’m actually running 5/3/1 alongside my OL stuff at the moment (fed up of my screwy shoulder messing up my overhead strength so decided to actually train my pressing for the first time in years and 5/3/1 looked like a straightforward way to approach it), although I’m not benching as that’s what messed my shoulder up in the first place. So I’m doing my OL stuff plus the front squat, overhead squat subbed for bench, strict press and clean deads, and the Boring But Big assistance. I have a silly strength:lifts ratio, so the reduced squatting frequency and lack of back squats actually suits me well at the moment. Plus I could do with the getting some reps in again.
As far a how to programme the OL stuff alongside it, I’m basically doing an 8 week cycle of 80/85/90/75/85/90/95+/75. I think it’s important to hit some heavy lifts in the OL stuff more regularly than the strength stuff to avoid getting to that point where you chicken out of 90% lifts because you’ve been spending too much time at 80-85%. I’m training 4 times a week, alternating between snatch and C&J for the first 3 days and then either snatch or clean pulls on the 4th depepnding on whether I snatched or cleaned on the 3rd. I figured I’m doing clean deads that day anyway so I may as well take advantage of that and use the pulls to warmup for it, plus it gives me the chance to have a lower impact OL day. I cut the last clean deads set short when I can’t hold position, rather than when the weight won’t budge.
3/2/1/deload is pretty much how I have the OL stuff too, though as you say triples in the C&J is for maniacs - one way to get round that is to do that week as 3+1 lifts. Works for me because my jerk is better than my clean, but if your clean is better than your jerk then 1+3 may work (although way tougher). For the 3rd session of the week I might power snatch rather than full snatch, or I might just clean and drop the jerks entirely. Obviously you can’t rep out your C&J like you can your squat, so I’m aiming on average for around 12 total reps at the top weight for the day, whether that be 4x3r, 6x2r, or 12x1r, although I do wave the volume over the course of 4 weeks.
I’m only on my 2nd cycle at the moment, but it’s going well and I’m enjoying the change of stimulus. I find I can push the volume on the OL stuff more without feeling sluggish next session, and body comp is starting to improve even though I’m still the same bodyweight (the no man’s land that is 81-82kg). I’m resting less between lifts, and my shoulder feels better than it has done in a long time too.
So, I’d say it’s definitely worth a shot. I think we do sometimes forget that there are other things in life than front squatting heavy singles 3 times a week.[/quote]
Nice. Another thing that has presented itself since my post was that I could still do a 3/2/1 version on CJ but on the 3 day I would do cleans and jerks from the boxes/rack separately for 3 reps each. And or since i train on 4 days/week I could have a jerk and clean day. that might piss me off though.
Ill let you know the sound of it once i get a preliminary template put together. gotta find my wallet first though. no idea where i put that shit.
-chris