T Nation

Wellbutrin-Nootropic Interactions

Without explaining too much of my medical history, I submit to you the following list of supplements I currently take. My question is fairly simple and is only relevant to those who may already know the answer.

That question is, “Am I taking any supplements that may interact negatively with one another or with the prescription Wellbutrin (Bupropion)?.” Beyond that, I welcome your opinion, positive or negative, about this regimen. Without further ado,

Morning

Wellbutrin (Bupropion) 200mg
Non-Caffeinated Spike, 2 tablets
750mg Aniracetam
2.4g Piracetam
4.5g Choline Citrate
2g DMAE
CoQ10, 150mg
Rhodiola Rosea (15% rosavins), 100mg
AKG, 1g
Vitamin B-6, 100mg
Green Tea Extract 400mg
Lecithin 3.6g
R-ALA 100mg

Mid Day

2-3 more 2.4g servings of Piracetam
1 more serving of 750mg Aniracetam
1 more serving of 1g DMAE
10-30mg Vinpocetine

Night

Fish Oil, Fiber, Melatonin, sometimes more Vinpocetine

In the pursuit of happiness and clarity,
M

I bet BBB will be able to help you out, try and PM or post in the brain booster thread?

[quote]sinnaman18 wrote:
Without explaining too much of my medical history, I submit to you the following list of supplements I currently take. My question is fairly simple and is only relevant to those who may already know the answer.

That question is, “Am I taking any supplements that may interact negatively with one another or with the prescription Wellbutrin (Bupropion)?.” Beyond that, I welcome your opinion, positive or negative, about this regimen. Without further ado,

Morning

Wellbutrin (Bupropion) 200mg
Non-Caffeinated Spike, 2 tablets
750mg Aniracetam
2.4g Piracetam
4.5g Choline Citrate
2g DMAE
CoQ10, 150mg
Rhodiola Rosea (15% rosavins), 100mg
AKG, 1g
Vitamin B-6, 100mg
Green Tea Extract 400mg
Lecithin 3.6g
R-ALA 100mg

Mid Day

2-3 more 2.4g servings of Piracetam
1 more serving of 750mg Aniracetam
1 more serving of 1g DMAE
10-30mg Vinpocetine

Night

Fish Oil, Fiber, Melatonin, sometimes more Vinpocetine

In the pursuit of happiness and clarity,
M

[/quote]

Dude, without a little more medical history, I can’t even begin to pontificate on this list.

For example, what type of depression/psychological problem do you have? If your Bi-Polar, or have periods of mania, there are quite a few supps on that list you shouldn’t take.

3g of DMAE is a ton man, a ton. Then you follow it up with more choline - Why? You are already juiced up with enough choline as it is with the DMAE.

I would keep that pira at 4.8g a day no more. No need for that extra serving.

Is that wellbutrin the extended release kind?

[quote]Wise Guy wrote:

Dude, without a little more medical history, I can’t even begin to pontificate on this list.

For example, what type of depression/psychological problem do you have? If your Bi-Polar, or have periods of mania, there are quite a few supps on that list you shouldn’t take.

3g of DMAE is a ton man, a ton. Then you follow it up with more choline - Why? You are already juiced up with enough choline as it is with the DMAE.

I would keep that pira at 4.8g a day no more. No need for that extra serving.

Is that wellbutrin the extended release kind?
[/quote]

I appreciate your response. It’s funny that you should strive to pontificate on any subject as if that were a desirable thing. Besides that, my “psychological problem” is not bipolarity or mania in nature. It’s fairly straightforward “clinical depression”. I realize that 3g of DMAE appears to be alot. Most literature suggests a gradual increase on dosage with time. I’ve been taking it for about three years, with a lot of success, and increasing dosage steadily when I notice dulled effects.

As for your comment about DMAE and Choline, I’m afraid you are poorly misinformed. To put it briefly, it appears that in the end, DMAE may inhibit choline. In fact, Choline is recommended to be taken WITH DMAE to balance this effect out.

“Another reputed effect of DMAE supplementation is a rise in choline and acetylcholine levels and a corresponding increase in memory ability. This is based on the assumption that DMAE is a choline precursor and also crosses the blood brain barrier more effectively than choline itself , giving it the ability to reach the brain and then increase brain choline levels. DMAE does consistently increase levels of free choline in the brain and body, but this is not because it is a converted to choline ? it is because it competitively inhibits choline kinase and choline oxidase, preventing the metabolism of choline to phosphocholine and betaine. As mentioned above, this results in the production of phosphatidyl-DMAE. However, this is not necessarily beneficial, since it replaces phosphatidylcholine, and thus may effectively blunt some of the biological actions of phosphatidylcholine.” – 1fast400.com

Finally, unless your suggestion of taking less piracetam is based upon the amount of other supplements in my regimen, i’m not sure where you’re coming from: the recommended dose for Piracetam is 2.4g 3-4 times daily.

I’m not being aimlessly disagreeable here, just trying to make sure that my supplementation is optimal. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

M

[quote]sinnaman18 wrote:
Wise Guy wrote:

Dude, without a little more medical history, I can’t even begin to pontificate on this list.

For example, what type of depression/psychological problem do you have? If your Bi-Polar, or have periods of mania, there are quite a few supps on that list you shouldn’t take.

3g of DMAE is a ton man, a ton. Then you follow it up with more choline - Why? You are already juiced up with enough choline as it is with the DMAE.

I would keep that pira at 4.8g a day no more. No need for that extra serving.

Is that wellbutrin the extended release kind?

I appreciate your response. It’s funny that you should strive to pontificate on any subject as if that were a desirable thing. Besides that, my “psychological problem” is not bipolarity or mania in nature. It’s fairly straightforward “clinical depression”. I realize that 3g of DMAE appears to be alot. Most literature suggests a gradual increase on dosage with time. I’ve been taking it for about three years, with a lot of success, and increasing dosage steadily when I notice dulled effects.

As for your comment about DMAE and Choline, I’m afraid you are poorly misinformed. To put it briefly, it appears that in the end, DMAE may inhibit choline. In fact, Choline is recommended to be taken WITH DMAE to balance this effect out.

“Another reputed effect of DMAE supplementation is a rise in choline and acetylcholine levels and a corresponding increase in memory ability. This is based on the assumption that DMAE is a choline precursor and also crosses the blood brain barrier more effectively than choline itself , giving it the ability to reach the brain and then increase brain choline levels. DMAE does consistently increase levels of free choline in the brain and body, but this is not because it is a converted to choline ? it is because it competitively inhibits choline kinase and choline oxidase, preventing the metabolism of choline to phosphocholine and betaine. As mentioned above, this results in the production of phosphatidyl-DMAE. However, this is not necessarily beneficial, since it replaces phosphatidylcholine, and thus may effectively blunt some of the biological actions of phosphatidylcholine.” – 1fast400.com

Finally, unless your suggestion of taking less piracetam is based upon the amount of other supplements in my regimen, i’m not sure where you’re coming from: the recommended dose for Piracetam is 2.4g 3-4 times daily.

I’m not being aimlessly disagreeable here, just trying to make sure that my supplementation is optimal. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond.

M[/quote]

You are being aimlessly disagreeable

Not only that, your sources are coming straight from the manufacture themselves - 1fast400, a large manufacturer of choline products.

Do a little more research on DMAE and you will find otherwise. I suggest you stay away from supplement company backed statements, LOL.

Your also basing your dosing recommendations for Pira off of that same company as well.

I base mine off a much, much more credible source - Life Extensions updated disease prevention manual, which basis its pira dosing off of European clinical research, were pira is prescribed quite often to treat a whole host of diseases.

Either way, I sense a lot of anger in you (typical of depression - anger turned inward), so I’m not wasting any more time arguing.

Cool thanks for being just another lame flamer on an internet forum that makes inane personal attacks. Ironically, you have managed to pontificate, as that means preaching your opinions in pompous and dogmatic ways.

Sorry that the rest of the people taking their time to read this had to be distracted by that.

I WILL take wise guy’s recommendation about sources into true consideration-- i don’t ever think my information is infallible, which is why i don’t take it personally when someone contradicts that information. It’s not me, it’s just my limited knowledge of the subject.

Back to the point. I posted here because my psychiatrist is fairly against “unorthodox” treatment (non-prescription), but i’ve had a lot of noticeable benefits from it.

I made the mistake of mixing DMAE with L-Tyrosine, which is known to produce a “confusion” effect: exactly what it did to me. When I stopped taking L-Tyrosine, my mental state was instantly more lucid. So I thought putting my regimen on a forum of people with a higher than average knowledge of the subject couldn’t hurt, as I realize i AM mixing a lot of supplements here.

So, the floor is still open. Thanks in advance!

Are you having problems with something? Why don’t you just take the wellbutrin and find out? Better yet do your own research for potential drug-drug interactions with wellbutrin and other compounds.

Pretty much, I just have a lot of trouble concentrating sometimes. I’m not sure how much of this is normal (I realize I am human, after all) and how much of this could POSSIBLY be attributed to a bad interaction (such as was the case with the L-Tyro). So, if no one says “Oh my god, don’t mix such and such with such and such”, then I will actually be much happier than if I realize in two weeks that i’ve been f***ing myself over.

I would rather not f*** myself over. Ergo, this entire post.

You can’t f*** yourself over. The worst that will happen is that you will feel temporarily bad. Many of the supplements you listed can affect dopamine. The extent to which they do, and if that is a bad or a good thing, depends on you. You just have to experiment. I can tell you that nothing on there will kill you.

I think Wise Guy made a good point when he said that you were taking information from 1fast400 as truth.

About a year ago I started doing actual research (not just reading company websites and forums) on each supplement/drug that went into my body; and I’ve been shocked a few times when reading up on things.

So it’s really worth while to take a look beyond the surface if it it something that is going to go in your body and effect the way you live your life.

Good luck.

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
You can’t f*** yourself over. The worst that will happen is that you will feel temporarily bad. Many of the supplements you listed can affect dopamine. The extent to which they do, and if that is a bad or a good thing, depends on you. You just have to experiment. I can tell you that nothing on there will kill you. [/quote]

Right. I myself can handle huge amounts of Tyrosine, 6g a day no problem, but I only take much smaller amounts of DMAE, like anywhere from 200mg to 600mg tops, nowhere near the 3g a day he is taking.

I don’t really think it was the tyrosine that caused issues - I think it was the really high doses of everything else(pira, DMAE and all around choline) that was giving you issues, and probably just an overload of everything in general.

Heck, wellbutrin itself is pretty much like a shutgun blast of dopamine. Things like cabergoline seem to be much more selective and efficient in this area.

I digress though. Its so difficult to give advise in these types of situations.

I think the best advise I could recommend is, at the very least, I would stick to the doses that have been deemed at least reasonably safe and people have had experiences with.

I.E - no more than 4.8g of pira a day. I think up to 1.5g of DMAE to be tolerable.

But hey, congrats on at least finding a psych who is tolerable and willing to try other approaches - that puts you ahead of 99% of everyone else.

You shoud try to pimp him for some moda - complain of daytime drowsiness, that is usually the ticket.

Moda obviously for short term, cycled use of course.

Good luck though, I mean that

[quote]B rocK wrote:
I think Wise Guy made a good point when he said that you were taking information from 1fast400 as truth.

[/quote]

Great point B. Amen to that.

No disrespect to 1fast400, they sell great products at heavily discounted prices, but just remember they are trying to SELL you something just like anyone else.

It is akin to shampoo companies telling you to wash, rinse and repeat.

Big pharma is notorious for that too. LEF does great write ups about that, and research too, finding out that many of the doses for typically prescribed drugs such as many SSRI’s, statins and such are way overdosed, and that effective doses are often 25-50% less.