T Nation

Welfare Checks Tied to Grades/Attendance

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
do not define a nation in which the other ninety-seven are among the best workers there are.

[/quote]

I have had two clients in Hotel/resort type industry tell me in the last 30 days that the J1’s the bring in for “on-season” hires are ten fold the employees the Americans are, and they are going back to an 80/20 split.

Basically saying many of the Americans they get just don’t put the effort into a job like that and see it as beneath them, while the Eastern Europeans work their ass off. (And then party like it is 1999 with massive orgies in the staff housing, but hey… Guests are happy.)[/quote]

I, too, have experienced the sheer superiority of immigrant workers over their American counterparts. Keep in mind, though, that this tends to be in low-income work and that low-income work tends to fall to American teenagers and/or dropouts.

When you’re talking productivity, you’re talking a lot more than that–the value that you generate per hour multiplied by what I’m sure is the ungodly amount of hours you work until the end of tax season, for example. Or the amount of work that an American engineer at Boeing does in comparison with his Russian counterpart.[/quote]

I contend the immigrant does not know how they are being exploited by low wages and if they do know they are not sure what to do about it . Time fixes all :slight_smile:
[/quote]
They know, in this day and age the info is out there, however, they would replace the idea of being exploited with taking advantage of an opportunity that is better than what they would get otherwise.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
do not define a nation in which the other ninety-seven are among the best workers there are.

[/quote]

I have had two clients in Hotel/resort type industry tell me in the last 30 days that the J1’s the bring in for “on-season” hires are ten fold the employees the Americans are, and they are going back to an 80/20 split.

Basically saying many of the Americans they get just don’t put the effort into a job like that and see it as beneath them, while the Eastern Europeans work their ass off. (And then party like it is 1999 with massive orgies in the staff housing, but hey… Guests are happy.)[/quote]

I, too, have experienced the sheer superiority of immigrant workers over their American counterparts. Keep in mind, though, that this tends to be in low-income work and that low-income work tends to fall to American teenagers and/or dropouts.

When you’re talking productivity, you’re talking a lot more than that–the value that you generate per hour multiplied by what I’m sure is the ungodly amount of hours you work until the end of tax season, for example. Or the amount of work that an American engineer at Boeing does in comparison with his Russian counterpart.[/quote]

I contend the immigrant does not know how they are being exploited by low wages and if they do know they are not sure what to do about it . Time fixes all :slight_smile:
[/quote]

To be fair, these kids aren’t being paid slave wages. 19-23k over 4 months, and orgies in America… Not too shabby. [/quote]

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages

Guys, again, these people are making close to 20k in 4 months. Let’s get off the “they are exploited” bullshit bandwagon.

Good lord.

Even if they were only making 13k over the busy season, that is still 50k a year.

Let’s stop pretending 50-80k a year isn’t good money, and leave lefty fairytale land, shall we?

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

So, 19k in wages over 4 months of work is minimum wage now?

What planet do you live on?

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Don’t want to pick tomatoes, eh? So then, the part about desperately looking for a job was a lie. Benefits denied. NEXT!

I have absolutely no problem with helping people through rough spots or when they need a helping hand. That’s what we are supposed to do as civilized people. I have a HUGE problem with rewarding the laziness and excuses and belly-aching of people who take advantage of the system. So long as we continue to do so, you cannot motivate people to do better for themselves and their families.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
do not define a nation in which the other ninety-seven are among the best workers there are.

[/quote]

I have had two clients in Hotel/resort type industry tell me in the last 30 days that the J1’s the bring in for “on-season” hires are ten fold the employees the Americans are, and they are going back to an 80/20 split.

Basically saying many of the Americans they get just don’t put the effort into a job like that and see it as beneath them, while the Eastern Europeans work their ass off. (And then party like it is 1999 with massive orgies in the staff housing, but hey… Guests are happy.)[/quote]

I, too, have experienced the sheer superiority of immigrant workers over their American counterparts. Keep in mind, though, that this tends to be in low-income work and that low-income work tends to fall to American teenagers and/or dropouts.

When you’re talking productivity, you’re talking a lot more than that–the value that you generate per hour multiplied by what I’m sure is the ungodly amount of hours you work until the end of tax season, for example. Or the amount of work that an American engineer at Boeing does in comparison with his Russian counterpart.[/quote]

I contend the immigrant does not know how they are being exploited by low wages and if they do know they are not sure what to do about it . Time fixes all :slight_smile:
[/quote]

To be fair, these kids aren’t being paid slave wages. 19-23k over 4 months, and orgies in America… Not too shabby. [/quote]

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

They get free schooling, free healthcare, welfare for their kids, in-state tuition, financial aid, free ESL classes, spare me from my tears.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Don’t want to pick tomatoes, eh? So then, the part about desperately looking for a job was a lie. Benefits denied. NEXT!

I have absolutely no problem with helping people through rough spots or when they need a helping hand. That’s what we are supposed to do as civilized people. I have a HUGE problem with rewarding the laziness and excuses and belly-aching of people who take advantage of the system. So long as we continue to do so, you cannot motivate people to do better for themselves and their families.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%[/quote]

I think even 10 hours a week could help cut out the people taking advantage and eliminate the excuse that you can’t pick tomatoes because your busy “looking for a real job”.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Don’t want to pick tomatoes, eh? So then, the part about desperately looking for a job was a lie. Benefits denied. NEXT!

I have absolutely no problem with helping people through rough spots or when they need a helping hand. That’s what we are supposed to do as civilized people. I have a HUGE problem with rewarding the laziness and excuses and belly-aching of people who take advantage of the system. So long as we continue to do so, you cannot motivate people to do better for themselves and their families.[/quote]

Agree with this 100%[/quote]

I think even 10 hours a week could help cut out the people taking advantage and eliminate the excuse that you can’t pick tomatoes because your busy “looking for a real job”.[/quote]

This is basically what Germany did during the downturn. Basically cut a lot of people down on hours instead of laying off a fewer number entirely. This allowed them to remain at work and keep their skills intact, while looking for other opportunities if they wanted. The government subsidized the difference between their reduced salary and what they were making before.

It was pretty close to a wash for everyone, since the government paid about the same as it would have in unemployment (more people receiving less vs. less people receiving more), companies were able to keep their talent crop, and workers were able to work to maintain their current skills, while investing in others and looking for other opportunities. This minimized the impact during the recession, for sure, but had an added bonus of setting them up to be STRONGER after the recession.

Pretty good idea IMO.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

So, 19k in wages over 4 months of work is minimum wage now?

What planet do you live on?[/quote]

You want to pay me 60k a year to do what? Yeah, that’s a piece of cake. I’ll do that. sheesh.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

So, 19k in wages over 4 months of work is minimum wage now?

What planet do you live on?[/quote]

You want to pay me 60k a year to do what? Yeah, that’s a piece of cake. I’ll do that. sheesh.[/quote]

I am afraid you are victim of disinformation . I was working next to a farm the end of last year . I asked some of the labor . If they made $11 an hour like the Arizona Republic claimed , they all laughed at me and told be they make minimum wage .They claim the top foreman does not make $10 .

They all claim to be in America legally and they denied any were illegal (Though I suspect they were lying).

I am afraid it is you that lives on another planet :slight_smile:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
do not define a nation in which the other ninety-seven are among the best workers there are.

[/quote]

I have had two clients in Hotel/resort type industry tell me in the last 30 days that the J1’s the bring in for “on-season” hires are ten fold the employees the Americans are, and they are going back to an 80/20 split.

Basically saying many of the Americans they get just don’t put the effort into a job like that and see it as beneath them, while the Eastern Europeans work their ass off. (And then party like it is 1999 with massive orgies in the staff housing, but hey… Guests are happy.)[/quote]

I, too, have experienced the sheer superiority of immigrant workers over their American counterparts. Keep in mind, though, that this tends to be in low-income work and that low-income work tends to fall to American teenagers and/or dropouts.

When you’re talking productivity, you’re talking a lot more than that–the value that you generate per hour multiplied by what I’m sure is the ungodly amount of hours you work until the end of tax season, for example. Or the amount of work that an American engineer at Boeing does in comparison with his Russian counterpart.[/quote]

I contend the immigrant does not know how they are being exploited by low wages and if they do know they are not sure what to do about it . Time fixes all :slight_smile:
[/quote]

To be fair, these kids aren’t being paid slave wages. 19-23k over 4 months, and orgies in America… Not too shabby. [/quote]

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

They get free schooling, free healthcare, welfare for their kids, in-state tuition, financial aid, free ESL classes, spare me from my tears.
[/quote]

I am not in favor of increasing our immigration . I would be in favor of making the farms pay a wage that convince people like me to get out there and work. I can promise you produce would have a quick price increase .

The reason I am apposed to immigrant labor is it starts at the bottom and erodes wages . I am sorry I don’t buy Ronald Reagan’s trickle down theory , I see it as a GOLDEN SHOWER. The bottom is where it starts for middle class . The higher the bottom is the higher the middle will be

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

So, 19k in wages over 4 months of work is minimum wage now?

What planet do you live on?[/quote]

You want to pay me 60k a year to do what? Yeah, that’s a piece of cake. I’ll do that. sheesh.[/quote]

Yeah, I have no idea what the hell nonsense Pitt is rambling on about, but these people are paid good wage to wait tables, clean rooms etc. And the foreign kids work harder and appreciate the opportunity much more than the American kids.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
do not define a nation in which the other ninety-seven are among the best workers there are.

[/quote]

I have had two clients in Hotel/resort type industry tell me in the last 30 days that the J1’s the bring in for “on-season” hires are ten fold the employees the Americans are, and they are going back to an 80/20 split.

Basically saying many of the Americans they get just don’t put the effort into a job like that and see it as beneath them, while the Eastern Europeans work their ass off. (And then party like it is 1999 with massive orgies in the staff housing, but hey… Guests are happy.)[/quote]

I, too, have experienced the sheer superiority of immigrant workers over their American counterparts. Keep in mind, though, that this tends to be in low-income work and that low-income work tends to fall to American teenagers and/or dropouts.

When you’re talking productivity, you’re talking a lot more than that–the value that you generate per hour multiplied by what I’m sure is the ungodly amount of hours you work until the end of tax season, for example. Or the amount of work that an American engineer at Boeing does in comparison with his Russian counterpart.[/quote]

I contend the immigrant does not know how they are being exploited by low wages and if they do know they are not sure what to do about it . Time fixes all :slight_smile:
[/quote]

To be fair, these kids aren’t being paid slave wages. 19-23k over 4 months, and orgies in America… Not too shabby. [/quote]

All I can say is thank god for minimum wage . because these people are so ripe to be exploited they would work for Mexican wages [/quote]

They get free schooling, free healthcare, welfare for their kids, in-state tuition, financial aid, free ESL classes, spare me from my tears.
[/quote]

I am not in favor of increasing our immigration . I would be in favor of making the farms pay a wage that convince people like me to get out there and work. I can promise you produce would have a quick price increase .

The reason I am apposed to immigrant labor is it starts at the bottom and erodes wages . I am sorry I don’t buy Ronald Reagan’s trickle down theory , I see it as a GOLDEN SHOWER. The bottom is where it starts for middle class . The higher the bottom is the higher the middle will be [/quote]

So you want farm wages to increase thus driving the price of produce up. Wouldn’t that mean cost of living would go up (at least as far as produce goes) basically nullifying the wage increase?

Also what do you think a fair wage is to pick vegetables?

I wish I had time to enlighten you folk :slight_smile:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I wish I had time to enlighten you folk :)[/quote]

Oh lord what will we ever do without hearing the same class warfare non-sense that has been parrotted for the last 4000+ or so years one more time?

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I wish I had time to enlighten you folk :)[/quote]

“Let them eat cake.” Worked for the French.

HEAR HEAR :slight_smile:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
HEAR HEAR :)[/quote]

ORDER!!! Unemployment going above 8% because the people not willing to work for $7.15 an hour come back to looking for a job at $9 but still no jobs so unemployment will sky rocket.

Since a government mandated minimum wage is effective at improving peoples’ quality of life, I think it should be somewhere around $20 an hour. That way everyone can be solidly in the middle class in most of the country.

Now that I think about it, why stop there? Go ahead and set a $200,000/year minimum wage and let everyone be upper middle class.

While we’re at it, why don’t we just add some zeroes behind the one on the dollar bill? Just think, your wealth would increase 1000x or more immediately. The government could then take a small portion of your increased wealth and pay off the debt while standards of living increase greatly in this country.

I can’t believe nobody has thought of this before.

Agreed.

The political posturing behind such a minimum wage law is asanine. First, minimum wage jobs are low skilled. This means the staff is replaceable and you can generally invest in operational efficiency improvements if the cost of labor is increased.

The firms will either A) cut costs, which means higher unemployment or B) increase prices or C) both.

Now if we take a fast food example, they employ many of these low wage workers, who in turn are more likely to frequent these establishments through purchasing power parity, lack of nutritional knowledge or accessible grocery stores. So now, these same people will face greater prospects of unemployment, and higher prices at wendy’s.