T Nation

Welcome 12 Million New Citizens

Possible Director of Homeland Security

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/20/transition.wrap/index.html

"Napolitano flew to Washington to urge Democrats on Wednesday to support a Senate immigration overhaul that would legalize the estimated 12 million people now living in the country illegally, while adding border and worksite enforcement and a large guest worker program, among other things. "

So what does this do our citizenship process?

How does it denigrate those who put forth the effort to become legal citizens and productive members of our society?

Does anyone think it is a good idea?

Securing new Democrat voters.

I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

[quote]
So what does this do our citizenship process?[/quote]

Nothing. They’d still have to pass a citizenship test in order to become citizens.

[quote]
How does it denigrate those who put forth the effort to become legal citizens and productive members of our society?[/quote]

Yes, some people get an easier ride while others get shit on. That’s life.

Yes, because the renovations to my office building may get finished quicker if Joe Blow contractor doesn’t get any of his immigrant workers deported.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Possible Director of Homeland Security

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/20/transition.wrap/index.html

"Napolitano flew to Washington to urge Democrats on Wednesday to support a Senate immigration overhaul that would legalize the estimated 12 million people now living in the country illegally, while adding border and worksite enforcement and a large guest worker program, among other things. "

So what does this do our citizenship process?

How does it denigrate those who put forth the effort to become legal citizens and productive members of our society?

Does anyone think it is a good idea?

[/quote]

Q) What’s the difference between the USA and Mexico?

A) About 20 years.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out. [/quote]

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

[quote]Doug Adams wrote:

So what does this do our citizenship process?

Nothing. They’d still have to pass a citizenship test in order to become citizens.

How does it denigrate those who put forth the effort to become legal citizens and productive members of our society?

Yes, some people get an easier ride while others get shit on. That’s life.

Does anyone think it is a good idea?

Yes, because the renovations to my office building may get finished quicker if Joe Blow contractor doesn’t get any of his immigrant workers deported.

[/quote]

Nope, just granted citizenship based on the fact that they are here.

I tend to disagree with letting them stay.

It completely demeans the point in being a citizen.

It is like letting kids graduate from highschool with out passing a class. Oh that happens now too.

You are going to undermine 600 million people for 12 million.

not to mention the toll it will take if universal healthcare does get put into place,

Are they going to be forced to pay taxes that they didn’t while they were working here illegaly, how can we track that, but then they will automatically get put into the social security system.

I don’t this should be a federal mandate, In PA we have an awesome mayor that is trying impose fines on business owners who hire illegals and rental owners who rent to them.

Push them out if they want to be here make them go through the proper steps.

[quote]pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play. [/quote]

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out. [/quote]

Not under current tax policies, they will be part of the group that gets their taxes back plus the rebate “welfare” that goes tot he 40% that don’t pay tax.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.[/quote]

I know it is called deportation, we have a government body that is supposed to do this (ICE), but their hands get tied by certain factions in our government(Liberals).

Sorry the narcissism isn’t directed towards you.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.[/quote]

It will if people quit giving them jobs. They will self deport. They are here for the work not the scenery.

I hate to burst everyone’s bubble, but giving them citizenship will do nothing to change their tax status. They’ll simply go from non-tax-paying illegals to non-taxpaying citizens.

We’ll be increasing the official size of the underclass from 40% to roughly 60% of the population that the actual taxpayers will support.

Moreover, it is unlikely that these new citizens will ever move out of that underclass. Read “Generations of Exclusion,” the new paper out by Telles and Ortiz. The paper naturally blames the usual scapegoats (whites) for the problems of Mexicans, but it does provide all the data one needs to make an informed decision on the amnesty issue.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.[/quote]

to play devils advocate here let me say this.

Our country is a country of migrants. only a little under 3 million people in the entire US is not a migrant or related to a migrant family.

and becuase they were migrants first, and here illegaly longer that makes them better than anyone just now attempting to come here?

you think any of your families went through “the proper steps”?
and who are the ones that set up these steps, the migrant families that came here to begin with that did not need to follow these steps they jumped on a boat and came right over built a house and called it a day.how is any of that fair?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I hate to burst everyone’s bubble, but giving them citizenship will do nothing to change their tax status. They’ll simply go from non-tax-paying illegals to non-taxpaying citizens.

We’ll be increasing the official size of the underclass from 40% to roughly 60% of the population that the actual taxpayers will support.

Moreover, it is unlikely that these new citizens will ever move out of that underclass. Read “Generations of Exclusion,” the new paper out by Telles and Ortiz. The paper naturally blames the usual scapegoats (whites) for the problems of Mexicans, but it does provide all the data one needs to make an informed decision on the amnesty issue. [/quote]

Wisdom.

[quote]MaddyD wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.

to play devils advocate here let me say this.

Our country is a country of migrants. only a little under 3 million people in the entire US is not a migrant or related to a migrant family.

and becuase they were migrants first, and here illegaly longer that makes them better than anyone just now attempting to come here?

you think any of your families went through “the proper steps”?
and who are the ones that set up these steps, the migrant families that came here to begin with that did not need to follow these steps they jumped on a boat and came right over built a house and called it a day.how is any of that fair?

[/quote]

Because those are the laws, when you break laws there are consequences do people forget this.

[quote]MaddyD wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.

to play devils advocate here let me say this.

Our country is a country of migrants. only a little under 3 million people in the entire US is not a migrant or related to a migrant family.

and becuase they were migrants first, and here illegaly longer that makes them better than anyone just now attempting to come here?

you think any of your families went through “the proper steps”?
and who are the ones that set up these steps, the migrant families that came here to begin with that did not need to follow these steps they jumped on a boat and came right over built a house and called it a day.how is any of that fair?

[/quote]

Mine did…We followed the exact letter of the law. My whole family immigrated here. My kids are first generation.

[quote]pat wrote:
MaddyD wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.

to play devils advocate here let me say this.

Our country is a country of migrants. only a little under 3 million people in the entire US is not a migrant or related to a migrant family.

and becuase they were migrants first, and here illegaly longer that makes them better than anyone just now attempting to come here?

you think any of your families went through “the proper steps”?
and who are the ones that set up these steps, the migrant families that came here to begin with that did not need to follow these steps they jumped on a boat and came right over built a house and called it a day.how is any of that fair?

Mine did…We followed the exact letter of the law. My whole family immigrated here. My kids are first generation.[/quote]

And do you think it it was worth the process or that is a needed process?

I am in no way trying to pick on you I just wanted see what you thought.

I work with a number naturalized citizens but most of them are from europe and they are all strong proponents of the immigration process. They tend to think it should be stricter.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Possible Director of Homeland Security

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/20/transition.wrap/index.html

"Napolitano flew to Washington to urge Democrats on Wednesday to support a Senate immigration overhaul that would legalize the estimated 12 million people now living in the country illegally, while adding border and worksite enforcement and a large guest worker program, among other things. "

So what does this do our citizenship process?

How does it denigrate those who put forth the effort to become legal citizens and productive members of our society?

Does anyone think it is a good idea?

[/quote]

No, but to be fair, we can’t pin it all on Democrats. There are Republicrats like Bush and McCain who supported it also and a few Democrats who had sense enough to oppose it.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Securing new Democrat voters.[/quote]

You’re right about that and that’s what’s sad.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
pat wrote:
MaddyD wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
pat wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
I just want them to pay taxes. It will drive the price of everything up, but at least they will be putting some money into the government instead of just sucking it all out.

I just want them to leave. But the democraps treat them like a power play.

I wish they would leave as well, but it is never going to happen.

to play devils advocate here let me say this.

Our country is a country of migrants. only a little under 3 million people in the entire US is not a migrant or related to a migrant family.

and becuase they were migrants first, and here illegaly longer that makes them better than anyone just now attempting to come here?

you think any of your families went through “the proper steps”?
and who are the ones that set up these steps, the migrant families that came here to begin with that did not need to follow these steps they jumped on a boat and came right over built a house and called it a day.how is any of that fair?

Mine did…We followed the exact letter of the law. My whole family immigrated here. My kids are first generation.

And do you think it it was worth the process or that is a needed process?

I am in no way trying to pick on you I just wanted see what you thought.

I work with a number naturalized citizens but most of them are from europe and they are all strong proponents of the immigration process. They tend to think it should be stricter.[/quote]

It really just wasn’t that bad. Some bullshit as is with all bureaucracy, but it was manageable. It isn’t worse than getting your license plate.