T Nation

Weighted Pullups

Anyone can kick their legs in a pullup just as easy as someone swinging their back back and getting under the bar on a lat pull down.

Why do people insist on looking at pro body builders for their techniques and imput, it has little to no correlation to every day people in the gym. thoes dudes are on soo many hormones and their bodies are nothing like mine or yours. its like rebuiding a transmission on a muscle car based on what the guys use at the drag strip on alcohol fueled cars.

Yes they are cars, and yes they use similar mechanics, but in no way are the cars comparable. cutler, yates, and heath probably do pulldowns because they weigh 300 pounds in the off season.

Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids.

[quote]y0lked wrote:
Anyone can kick their legs in a pullup just as easy as someone swinging their back back and getting under the bar on a lat pull down.

Why do people insist on looking at pro body builders for their techniques and imput, it has little to no correlation to every day people in the gym. thoes dudes are on soo many hormones and their bodies are nothing like mine or yours. its like rebuiding a transmission on a muscle car based on what the guys use at the drag strip on alcohol fueled cars.

Yes they are cars, and yes they use similar mechanics, but in no way are the cars comparable. cutler, yates, and heath probably do pulldowns because they weigh 300 pounds in the off season. [/quote]

serious…?

I can achieve a much tighter MMC with pulldowns as opposed to pullups. additionally, while I’ve been bulking I have been fuck-all clueless as to how much I am actually progressing. I had to drop down to BW pullups again after admitting to myself that my bis and some kipping had been keeping me afloat with my pullup progression. however, there is no doubt with pulldown progression. the weight stack stays the same no matter how much you weigh.

edit: you are 6’1" and 180? Jesus Christ eat something. I weighed just ten lb less than you in my old avi and I’m 5’9".

LOL at people arguing over which exercise is better. How about we just let each person figure out what works best for them.

And the idea that you can’t cheat as much on pulldowns as opposed to pullups is ridic. More leaning back/shorter ROM if you aren’t honest with yourself.

funny how the answers diverted from the original question. Some of my old workout partners did the same, cuz they were a little heavier and struggled with pullups, eventually they just dismissed it and criticized the movement all together. Be weary of some advice IMO.

I’d incorporate both on alternating weeks, the non-weighted with a nice slow negative. My best results were with no weight + negative, but I always make sure I use weighted pullups on occasion to see where my strength is at in that movement. I’ll hit the lat pulldown too sparingly when I’m feeling blah, on a de-load or say nursing an slight knock/injury. There is room to hide using lat pulldown, there isn’t with pullups…

[quote]fr0IVIan wrote:

[quote]y0lked wrote:
Anyone can kick their legs in a pullup just as easy as someone swinging their back back and getting under the bar on a lat pull down.

Why do people insist on looking at pro body builders for their techniques and imput, it has little to no correlation to every day people in the gym. thoes dudes are on soo many hormones and their bodies are nothing like mine or yours. its like rebuiding a transmission on a muscle car based on what the guys use at the drag strip on alcohol fueled cars.

Yes they are cars, and yes they use similar mechanics, but in no way are the cars comparable. cutler, yates, and heath probably do pulldowns because they weigh 300 pounds in the off season. [/quote]

serious…?

I can achieve a much tighter MMC with pulldowns as opposed to pullups. additionally, while I’ve been bulking I have been fuck-all clueless as to how much I am actually progressing. I had to drop down to BW pullups again after admitting to myself that my bis and some kipping had been keeping me afloat with my pullup progression. however, there is no doubt with pulldown progression. the weight stack stays the same no matter how much you weigh.

edit: you are 6’1" and 180? Jesus Christ eat something. I weighed just ten lb less than you in my old avi and I’m 5’9".[/quote]

I agree. The best indicator of growth is progression, but the progression gets screwed up with pullups if you’re constantly gaining weight.

Either way here’s a thread that I started a while ago on the topic in case it helps

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
LOL at people arguing over which exercise is better. How about we just let each person figure out what works best for them.[/quote]

Yes exactly what the forums are for, so people can figure shit out on their own and not ask questions or argue lol.

I think Froivians point about assessing progression easier on pulldowns is a good one. Also, pulldowns are not just for people that are too fat to do a pullup. A lot of people do them because pullups have become too easy and don’t give the same results that pulldowns do.

This was turning into the usual “what else other than shrugs should I do for my traps” thread. some people like weighted pullups, some like pulldowns. I think you should just get a strong with both as possible.

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
This was turning into the usual “what else other than shrugs should I do for my traps” thread. some people like weighted pullups, some like pulldowns. I think you should just get a strong with both as possible.[/quote]

absolutely.

that vid of Wendler doing 100 lb weighted chins is boss, and something that I’m aiming for.

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids. [/quote]

Aiming to look like eveyone else in the gym, and being average are two different things. Im not a big guy. Im tall lean and am not aiming to be "gigantic’ like most of you. I also dont bench like a power lifter. Does that mean im not a good bencher? Does that mean im doing it wrong? No its just different. Im not 300lbs or have the body to utilize a powerlifting form.

Why the hate from everyone? I know im not big, nor am i that strong. But i didnt start this thread to argue with thoes of you who are. If u like pull-downs thats fine. If you think i should eat at a buffet every day and gain 20 lbs thats fine. But stick to the topic. This isnt the pulldowns vs pullups thrad.

As far as rep ranges go… which would be better for overall back development? Sets of 3-6 weighted, or sets of 8-12 non weighted?

[quote]y0lked wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids. [/quote]

Aiming to look like eveyone else in the gym, and being average are two different things. Im not a big guy. Im tall lean and am not aiming to be "gigantic’ like most of you. I also dont bench like a power lifter. Does that mean im not a good bencher? Does that mean im doing it wrong? No its just different. Im not 300lbs or have the body to utilize a powerlifting form.

Why the hate from everyone? I know im not big, nor am i that strong. But i didnt start this thread to argue with thoes of you who are. If u like pull-downs thats fine. If you think i should eat at a buffet every day and gain 20 lbs thats fine. But stick to the topic. This isnt the pulldowns vs pullups thrad.

As far as rep ranges go… which would be better for overall back development? Sets of 3-6 weighted, or sets of 8-12 non weighted? [/quote]

Just do both, even if one was slightly better than the other wouldn’t you want to get good at both? Weighted should help non-weighted anyway.

[quote]y0lked wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids. [/quote]

Aiming to look like eveyone else in the gym, and being average are two different things. Im not a big guy. Im tall lean and am not aiming to be "gigantic’ like most of you. I also dont bench like a power lifter. Does that mean im not a good bencher? Does that mean im doing it wrong? No its just different. Im not 300lbs or have the body to utilize a powerlifting form.

Why the hate from everyone? I know im not big, nor am i that strong. But i didnt start this thread to argue with thoes of you who are. If u like pull-downs thats fine. If you think i should eat at a buffet every day and gain 20 lbs thats fine. But stick to the topic. This isnt the pulldowns vs pullups thrad. [/quote]

Since when is a good natured discussion/argument, whatever you want to call it, considered “hate from everyone?” That is annoying.

[quote]
As far as rep ranges go… which would be better for overall back development? Sets of 3-6 weighted, or sets of 8-12 non weighted? [/quote]

3-5 sets of 8-12 reps… of pulldowns.

[quote]y0lked wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids. [/quote]

Aiming to look like eveyone else in the gym, and being average are two different things. Im not a big guy. Im tall lean and am not aiming to be "gigantic’ like most of you. I also dont bench like a power lifter. Does that mean im not a good bencher? Does that mean im doing it wrong? No its just different. Im not 300lbs or have the body to utilize a powerlifting form.

Why the hate from everyone? I know im not big, nor am i that strong. But i didnt start this thread to argue with thoes of you who are. If u like pull-downs thats fine. If you think i should eat at a buffet every day and gain 20 lbs thats fine. But stick to the topic. This isnt the pulldowns vs pullups thrad.

As far as rep ranges go… which would be better for overall back development? Sets of 3-6 weighted, or sets of 8-12 non weighted? [/quote]

i dunno how to answer this but say…

since you have the ability to do both, do both. Seems like you’re looking for a right or wrong answer or one that supports your thinking. It may seem like an ‘on the fence’ answer but why would you limit yourself to one strategy. Sounds like you think if you do one for a month and not the other, you’ll regress or something. The majority of bb’ing for stretches of time, is trial and error to what combinations of movements/weight/principles stimulates your personal growth. Anyone can give you a map, but eventually you’ll have to drive…

ok so this threads been pretty hilarious with everyone arguing over pulldowns and pullups lol. but yeah i think the problem might be that you need to better define what you mean by “overall back development”. do you mean strength, endurance, power, mass, or all of the above? do you only care about working on your back muscles? because pullups defineitely work your grip and arms too which might slow you down if your forearms and biceps are much weaker than your lats, traps etc. weighted will work youre grip a lot and your abs and obliques while strengthening youre back. they might even help improve youre bodyweight pullups by making them feel easier. If you can already do more than 6 or 7 bodyweight pullups for multiple sets i doubt theyll help with strength although theyll work youre endurance more and might be better for hypertrophy. so decide what you want specifically and then youre decision will be a lot easier.

[quote]GreatAjax wrote:
ok so this threads been pretty hilarious with everyone arguing over pulldowns and pullups lol. but yeah i think the problem might be that you need to better define what you mean by “overall back development”. do you mean strength, endurance, power, mass, or all of the above? [/quote]

^^^^^^^ this is gold, probably overlooked by everyone else including me.

whatever you decide on, just make sure your lats do the work. you are looking for back development after all.

[quote]y0lked wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
Most people here could care less about looking like the everyday person in the gym. Volume and intensity is one thing, but saying that a pro bodybuilders exercise selection should not be emulated because of their steroid use is just a stupid argument. It’s like saying someone shouldn’t emulate berry bonds, manny ramirez, or a-rod’s swing mechanics because they used steroids. [/quote]

Aiming to look like eveyone else in the gym, and being average are two different things. Im not a big guy. Im tall lean and am not aiming to be "gigantic’ like most of you. I also dont bench like a power lifter. Does that mean im not a good bencher? Does that mean im doing it wrong? No its just different. Im not 300lbs or have the body to utilize a powerlifting form.

Why the hate from everyone? I know im not big, nor am i that strong. But i didnt start this thread to argue with thoes of you who are. If u like pull-downs thats fine. If you think i should eat at a buffet every day and gain 20 lbs thats fine. But stick to the topic. This isnt the pulldowns vs pullups thrad.

As far as rep ranges go… which would be better for overall back development? Sets of 3-6 weighted, or sets of 8-12 non weighted? [/quote]

Do both. Increase your strength in both rep ranges. Over time, get strong enough to lift 45lb+ for 8-12 reps.

Btw for pulldowns I highly recommend using a straight bar instead of the traditional bent one, if your gym has it. I think you get a much better mind muscle connection that way.

I do both. DE pullup day is BW for high reps and then when I fatigue I use bands. ME pullup day is weighted aiming for 3x6 3x4 3x3 3x2. Also play around with your grip. If you have to monkey swing out to a wide grip it will make a 45 lb plate around your waist feel a lot heavier. When I get done with pullups I go over to the Lat Row because it doesn’t go high enough if I dont fatigue out with pullups first. Then DB rows, cable rows, weighted pullup shrugs, curls.

Hmm, when i first started training seriously and read the Arnold BodyBuilding Encyclopedia he says that pulldowns should never replace pullups/chins as the staple exercise so I have always gone with that. I think both should be uitised though, pullups are a must and then go on to the pulldown and use a variation.