T Nation

Weight Loss and Waist Gain or Vice Versa, What Gives?


#1

Hi!

I started to raise my carbs again after being keto/low carb a long time and also upped my kcal slowly over ithe last 2-3 weeks (no insulin resistance but still overweight :confused: ).

I experienced many benefits (Vasodilatation) and also did NOT (as feared) gain a lot of weight.

But I noticed the last 2 weeks, that my waist circumference started to grow, even though my weight goes down.

Yesterday I cut back the carbs again, kept protein and fat stable and also ate a bit less kcal; today its the other way around (waist cm lost but gained 1kg)

How is this possible? Shouldnt it be the other way round?
Isnt waist circumference the better indicator for metabolic flexibility/carbs&insulin sensitivity/inflammation?

What should I do now?

Some Example:

7.06
129,6 kg
114/103/103

6.6.
128,5kg
117/103/103

2.6
129,5kg
115/105/105

1.6
130kg
113/103/103

31.5
131kg
115/103/101

30.5
131
115/104/103

25.5
130,3
114/102/102

23.5
129,6
113/102/98

22.5
129,8
112/102/100

21.5
130,9
112/102/102


#2

the carbs sources you're eating could be bloating you


#3

You lost 2-3kg in a full year's time. Even you've been even half-heartedly trying to drop fat, it would've happened accidentally for someone your size.

You should re-evaluate your entire approach to training and nutrition and likely do the opposite of everything you've been doing all along because whatever you've been doing has not been working. At all.


#4

ok I am not really sure why you answer me like this?

I KNOW that I stall and thats why I am asking what to do now!

I am working out and changed my kcal and macros multiple times.
any I did try. believe me... I read scientific papers, tried other approaches and spend A LOT of money on nutrition and coaches

so thanks a lot ....


#5

Why are you adding carbs to begin with if you're still overweight?

How long is a long time? Maybe the numbers you put up would be more helpful if you actually explained what each one meant.

Like Yogi said, the increase in carbs could be causing more water retention.

He's being honest with you. If you only lost 2-3 kg in a whole year and your goal is to lose weight, you're obviously doing something wrong.


#6

Losing that little weight in that long amount of time is not a "stall", it's close to zero progress from the wrong diet or the wrong training or both.

Anybody online we might've heard of, or just local guys like the one who suggested you eat 1,000 calories a day to lose weight?


#7

Why are you adding carbs to begin with if you're still overweight?
metabolic flexibility

How long is a long time? Maybe the numbers you put up would be more helpful if you actually explained what each one meant.

2 years.. and i lost 38kg ... so its not nothing at all!
112 abdominal/102 navel/100 above navel

Anybody online we might've heard of, or just local guys like the one who suggested you eat 1,000 calories a day to lose weight?

dont think so because mostly german coaches
I am right now saving for menno henselmanns
and yes.. most BB just fix everything on kcal.. instead of hormones

He's being honest with you. If you only lost 2-3 kg in a whole year and your goal is to lose weight, you're obviously doing something wrong.

wouldnt know what, because I tried all kcal and macros

see below

Log recent

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/eraser51

log old and stuff

http:// s270.photobucket.com/user/eraser51/library/

statistics

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1f00b4dph6rgc8/MFP%20Statistics%20Jan2016.xlsm?dl=
0
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uor08hunmfmwnp4/AACCTB5EgtB08GehMdhhvg-Ta?dl=0


#8

In June 2015, you weighed 132kg. It's June 2016 and you weigh 129-130kg. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm not 100% familiar with MyFitnessPal, but...

That looks like it's saying you ate too few total calories most of the time, you didn't eat enough protein most of the time, you didn't eat enough fat most of the time, and you didn't train enough most of the time. If I'm missing something, let me know.

I took a quick look at some of your "recent log" entries and it looks like most days, you're only eating breakfast and lunch, sometimes only one or the other. Do you just not use the log a lot?


#9

In June 2015, you weighed 132kg. It's June 2016 and you weigh 129-130kg. That's what I'm talking about.

I know and thats what drives me crazy because I cant beat that stall.
But I started 2 years ago with 166kg and lost easily on keto 38kg. so its not nothing at all

I tried to reset leptin and or cortisol because I also had 1800kcal days or just fasted and it did go down a bit but if I raise (to 2000kcal for example) its just back on.

therefore I wanted to do a break with more kcal and more carbs

I guess I just need to raise kcal overall again because I stall that long and the hormones arent in check?

maybe it just suffice to use AMPK with IF and then eat protein for mtor at evenings.
but also here the question: with carbs (for leptin and thyroid) or without?
only on training days or everyday?
or somethijng else altogether?

I'm not 100% familiar with MyFitnessPal, but...

I know, the problem is the excel sheet just reads the recent goals and if you change it (more kcal or more protein) it doesnt calcualte it back; therefore if you change one goal its always incorrect.
But I attached a lot of own stats in the last excel maps

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jwaybuo9x1xpsk/MFP%20Statistik%202016-214.xlsx?dl=0


#10

so ..... any advice ?


#11

when weight loss slows there's generally two things you can try:

-eat more and exercise more
-eat less and exercise less

pick one, give it a try for a month, reevaluate


#12

You shouldn't be afraid to experiment on yourself. I made a lot of strength gains as a kid only exercising a hour at at time, six days a week, but I was chubby. It wasn't until I took a boxing class that lasted over an hour (boxing 2 or 3 nights a week and lifting 3 days a week) that I started trimming down. So after I quit the boxing I lifted weights for longer times; I found that if I lifted at least 75-90 minutes (three days a week), I would trim down a little, too (longer than 90 minutes hit diminishing returns) but I didn't lose weight, so I'm guessing I lost fat and gained muscle at about the same rate. Right now I'm experimenting with workouts dividing those 90 minutes between lifting and swimming, and it's working even better. These lifts are focused around leg work: squats, cleans and presses, etc, to kick up the metabolism. On off days I walk or do a quickie martial arts/body weight session.

Or it could be dietary. I was saddened when I realized how much cheese bloats me. I really had to cut back.


#13

when weight loss slows there's generally two things you can try:

-eat more and exercise more
-eat less and exercise less

pick one, give it a try for a month, reevaluate

well I am doing that already

I kept my exercise and upped my kcal as well as my protein
thats the problem

As i said I am stalled on all approaches: more exercise, more kcal, less, other macros.

therefore the question :wink:

paules:
I also thought about bloating but right now it seems only carbs really bloat me... therefore I guess its still carbs metabolism problems
so I guess I cut the out again except dairy... had no problems with cheese or stuff before but lactose intolerant a bit...


#14

Maybe I missed it, but what are your workouts like?

Joel


#15

Nobody with 30% bodyfat needs to concern themselves thinking about AMPK, mTor, or any other minutia like that. Simply thinking about calories, protein, carbs, fat, weight training, and cardio is sufficient.

This still tells me your eating is all kinds of fucked up. You're constantly varying your intake plus or minus 2,000 calories throughout the week. Some weeks, you're eating 1,600 one day, 2,100 the next, and 3,500 the next. The week before, you had 1,500 calories, 3,200 calories the next day, then 1,200 calories the day after.

Never mind that it seems like you've on extremely low calories for someone your size, for a long time. Your metabolism is probably shut down in panic mode because you've averaged 1,900 calories through all of March and April. That's roughly bodyweight (in pounds) x 7. Most coaches recommend never going below bodyweight x 10 when losing fat.

You need to work on being consistent with the basics. Try bodyweight in pounds x 13 calories for 14 days straight, while lifting 3-5 days a week and doing some kind of cardio 3-4 days a week, and see what happens.

Also, like squirrel said, what do your workouts look like? The weights (days, exercises, sets, and reps) and cardio.


#16

I would like to suggest, as someone who is your size (weight and waist) but a bit shorter, that Chris is right.

The hardest thing for me is to eat enough. I lift heavy 75-90 min a day, five days a week. I also do hitt or sprints 3 days a week. I do all of this to relieve stress (my goal).

It was not until I was at my (German) grandmother's for a week and she force feed me potatoes and meat that I lost weight (with 0 workouts). I was eating 3000-5000 cal a day during that trip and lost 10 lbs.

If I eat what I want I only consume 1600-2100 cal, this is too little given my size and workouts. Since that trip I have forced myself to eat 2500-3500 cal a day and the weight keeps dropping (down 25 lbs since the end of Feb).

I know from my journals if I can eat even more I lose more, but alas that is easier to say then do (if you only eat real food).


#17

@jackedsquirrel
I workout 2-3 times a week with compound exercises (squat, deadlift, overheadpress, ect) and do cardio warmup, sometimes a HIIT protocol instead of cardio

@Chris_Colucci :
I really dont follow.

How can AMPK and mTor, the most important hormones , not be relevant for me? If its just kcal and macros why didnt I lose 5 years ago with low fat, high protein and 1800kcal+4x 2h workout (constant mtor activation, impaired glucose buring and overtraining)?

Why did keto (enhanced ampk + enhanced fat burning ) then work so well without any effort? btw: for many overweight.

If kcal count, why should I eat more?

Why should I eat if I am not hungry? Or not eat , after training, if hungry?
If its about balance an average should still apply.

What should I use as kcal and macros then?


#18

That isn't much detail at all, but it's not a training program I'd suggest for someone with a lot of fat to lose. Nothing wrong with only training 2 days a week usually, but it's absolutely not optimal for fat loss. There are tons of better programs to choose from.

Because like I said, thinking about those things is detail-work. Simply focusing on the bigger picture (basic diet and training) is all someone your size needs to see results. Overthinking and overanalyzing can, will, and has lead to slow progress.

Because 130-pound women should be eating 1,800 calories a day. That low calorie intake with 8 hours of weekly training is not how a 290-pound man should be eating.

Using hunger to dictate calories is what gets most people in trouble whether they're trying to build muscle or drop fat. Stick to calorie goals and your hunger will eventually level off. But to be fair, being a little hungry when dieting is normal. Suck it up, stick to the plan, and see results.


#19

Are you hypothyroid or hypogonadal?

It's either that or you were not eating 1800 calories/day.


#20

could also be a problem

have a blood panel next week
hope this helps

I also thought about it. I had lowerish T3 at the beginning of my low carb and maybe made it worse with it

But doesnt the reverse diet at least made it better than?
or doesnt that suffice and I need more iodine?

any ideas? still nothing with the weight
despite 2000kcal measured acurately and triple checked