T Nation

Weight Loss and Muscle Building Help Needed


Hello everyone,

My name is Charlie and I’m 28. I work on board cargo vessels from where I’m writing right now as well. Might seem like an irrelevant private info but it will be relevant due to some factors like limited diet possibilities, free time etc.

To start with a brief ‘history’, I was a coach-potato for almost the last decade and this year I hit 100kg for the first time (102kg [225lb] to be precise) which made me change my lifestyle, as much as I could considering the circumstances. I’m 185cm which would be like 6’ or 6’ 1’’. I guess 100kg would be acceptable for some but in my case we’re not talking about muscles, we’re talking about fat. I do feel like an intruder here since I have absolutely nothing to do with body-building but since I’m considering some steroids and need some help I figured out I’ll stop-by here even it means getting bashed by the whole community. I can handle it.

So in January (about 4 months ago) I stopped eating junk which was part of my daily ‘diet’ together with most carbs. Not a strict diet but definitely a big change in food intake, especially on the calorie-intake side. I also started training, mostly cardio, running (around the vessel and ‘in-one-place’), some push-ups, sit-ups and other exercises which are a combination of the mentioned or similar ones. Later on I added some (light) weight lifting (about 15-20kg) with 5-6 sets of 20-30 reps. So nothing intensive but I have been sweating for the last few months, almost every day with 1-day break a week, on average. The ‘training sessions’ are normally 45min up to an hour.

In the last 3 months I came from 102kg [225lb] to 91kg [200lb] which was a very good result for me. I could feel and see the weight loss but honestly my main problem was belly fat and I feel like that’s the one place where I lost least weight. I did lose some and I know I reduced the waist by few cm but still… far from the results I was going for.

In the last month the weight reduction was significantly lower and I lost like 2-3kg in a whole month, with basically the same training schedule and food/calorie intake. I feel like it’s getting more and more difficult to go even lower even though I’m not too worried about the weight anymore as I am about the belly fat, especially the so-called ‘love handles’.

I never took any supplements, especially not steroids but browsing the never-ending internet I am tempted to consider trying them out, for a cycle or two, not more. I’m not interested in any dramatic results, not interested in becoming a ripped body-builder or whatever (hope this doesn’t come out too strong) but if I could use some supplements/steroids in order to speed up my progress and get me the results I want, I’m willing to consider them.

I am doing my own research for the last few weeks gathering information from different websites, medical articles, lab studies etc. including a lot of useful information from this forum itself. However, I decided to ‘say hello’ and see if a ‘direct approach’ with yield some more specific information for me and save me some time which is, again, quite limited.

The first ‘thing’ I came across was CLEN. I know personally some people who used to take it (usually for the same purpose as me) and they were quite satisfied. I felt, however, that they run into it without too much information or understanding at all. Seems like it ended up just fine for them but I’m not willing to go that road without knowing what I’m doing and why. As far as I’ve read, CLEAN is the most effective steroid for weight-loss and together with my current life-style I believe it would get me at least some of the results I’m after. I’d probably go with the 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off cycle for 6 weeks (2on / 2off / 2on) starting with a lower dosage (about 60-80 µg) the first week (to see how my organism reacts to it) and then build it up to the 120-140µg per day in the last 2 weeks after the 2-week break).

That was my original plan but you know how internet is. Only CLEN is not enough, should be used stack with this and that and that’s when I ‘lost track’ a bit. Seems like TEST is almost a ‘must’ for any similar stack but I’ll go a step ahead and say that I would not prick myself at this stage (and probably any stage) so that’s not an option. Orally intake only. Then I saw a lot of stack including CLEN and WILLY (willy would prevent excessive muscle loss, not that I have much) but again mostly with TEST or even a lot of other substances I didn’t even have time to research yet. T3 is one of them, again… stacked with CLEN or even CLEN+WILLY+T3 (all orally). So at this stage I’m a bit lost and I need your help. At least getting the pieces of information together and then I’ll decide IF I will go that road and how.

So one of the options I’m considering right now is CLEN and WILLY in which case I’d start taking WHEY protein as well and would add more resistance and strength training (especially with weights) on my current ‘plan’. I’d also take some guarana extract / taurine in case I have some muscle cramps (wouldn’t take them unless I do have problems). In some places I’ve read that CLEN+WILLY is a good combo, on other places that it’s terrible idea. Quite difficult to see a precise ‘picture’ so I’m hoping that you will help me out here.

As for the dosage, I mentioned about the CLEN and then plan above. As for WILLY, I’d probably take it for the straight 6 weeks (no break like with CLEN), starting with a lower dosage (around 30mg per day) seeing how my body reacts and then building it up to 50mg, probably from week 3, when a break from CLEN starts. Whey protein would be there because I don’t have an option to get enough proteins otherwise (refer to the first paragraph) and I’m considering taking about 20g, 2 times a day (40g per day). Again, taurine would be only in case of problems with muscle cramps.

T3 also seems to be part of the similar stacks most of the time but I haven’t research it enough yet.

As far as impotence goes, I don’t care at all as long as it’s temporary. Again, refer to the first paragraph and why is that. That’s why I guess I could go without TEST.

I’m sure some (if not most) of you will say that I should just continue with exercise and diet which is fair but I’d still like to hear some opinions about the mentioned stack, some suggestions and possible changes either on other supplements/steroids or on the dosage itself. I will continue my routine no matter what but if I can get better results quicker with one cycle or two then I’m willing to consider trying it.

Sorry for the long post and for not including some ‘basic info’ which I’ve seen most do like bf % etc. but I just don’t have the means to find out that and similar information.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help.

  • Charlie


You got good result right now, your body will take time to change and be like you want, its years and years of work. First you dont even lift enought weight, and i dont think your diet is perfect right now ! grab someone that can help you with training and diet first before you think of taking clen or t3…

= LONG TIME RESULT WILL BE AWESOME ! one day at the time…you just start !


You don’t need gear yet. There is no fast solution. You need consistent diet and training. The best way to burn fat is to build more muscle, so you might want to focus on that more than your cardio based stuff. Cardio will make you skinny, yes. But a balance of both is the most ideal.
Clen is great, but I think you don’t need it yet.
T3 is often used by bodybuilding competitors (including me) to keep the thyroid functioning normally in very restrictive and depleting diets.
If your thyroid is functioning normally, I suggest staying away from T3. It can mess you up and shut your thyroid down completely if you don’t know what you are doing.
You are concerned with belly fat. That’s where people often have the most trouble holding fat.

I think you should post in a diet type forum instead of pharma. You don’t need the drugs to get what you want. Just time and consistency.


Also, you stated that you have not even had tie to research yet… YOU NEED TO RESEARCH BEFORE GETTING ON THESE FORUMS!!! Otherwise you are just going to get fucked with…

Also, CLEN is not a steroid, its a thermogenic that actually works… You need to research instead of just going off of stuff you hear from others. This is your body. Take the time to educate yourself, then ask questions if you have them.


I appreciate the reply.

But then again… if it will take me years and years why not speed it up by doing a cycle or two? I might sound like douche now but I’m just saying what’s on my mind now. Because I’m not looking to replace anything with steroids, just to give me an additional push to get some of the results faster and then keeping them with more exercise and better diet.

I’m definitely not lifting enough. But I’m planning to start next week anyways. As for the diet… like I said, I’m on board with not much choice in that department. I can choose not to eat junk which is already in place but I have not much options as to what to eat and when. That’s why I thought that adding whey protein daily would be a must if I decide to go with either CLEN or WINNY.


I’m not looking for a fast solution. I’m not a 13-year old kid who wants to take a handful of pills and become a bodybuilder. I’m looking for a push that will give me faster and better results. Again, for a cycle or two only, not to switch to steroids just like that.

I’m aware of the muscles and benefits of them in the ‘fat-loss’ department as well, I was just too focused on losing weight that I was based almost exclusively on the cardio. But like I said above, I’m planning to start with some lifting next week and hope for the best.

As for the second part… I am researching and it’s a process that lasts a long time, maybe a never-ending one. But posting here and getting someone like you to post a few words is part of the research and I appreciate it.

I never said I will go with this or that cycle. I’m just considering it even tho I knew in advance that most ppl will tell me to stick with diet and exercise and forget the steroids. But I believe I stated my reasons for consideration and don’t want to repeat myself.

Thanks for the time.


Sigh… this thread has really wound me up.

FFS dude, you say you’re not a 13 year old but you certainly sound like one.

Eat right, train hard with big compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, chin/pull ups or rows and bench presses. Look for a decent training program such as 5/3/1 for beginners. Do some conditioning or cardio too.

Losing a lot fat takes effort and dedication. If you can’t get your mindset right now you’ll rebound fast IF (that’s a very big if) you ever achieve your desired physique.


You said that after 3 months of dieting and training the same the last month you saw very little progress. Honestly that is the issue right there, the body constantly adapts if you stick to the same calories and training your body is just going to say, “this is getting easy we are comfortable now” you need to make adjustments and also learn when to back off the diet. After 3 months you should probably spend 1-2 months just trying to stay the same weight and up the training volume a little and let the body get use to its new baseline and THEN try cutting again for another 3 months. When I diet I end up making little adjustments to training and diet week to week depending on my weigh ins and general condition (e.g. when you start to feel like crap in training, weight training volume goes down a little but easy cardio goes up to help with fat loss )


Fuckin A I’m making that a hashtag #clenandwilly