[quote]MAF14 wrote:
oh and the reason you wouldnt want to use the weight gainers, is bc of the fat content. fat slows digestion of carbs/proteins, it’ll sit in your stomach like a brick while you’re working out, IMO[/quote]
The weightgainer I have always used has 1.5g fat per 250 calories.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
That’s it. The magical “window” is bullshit. Yes, there are times when a shake is more convenient (i.e. 5am workout or straight after shcool/work) but the whole “must have a shake” thing is advertising bullshit aimed at exploiting the search for the “magic pill”.[/quote]
Certainly there is more than one way to skin the cat, but solid food offers absolutely no advantage from a nutrition or price perspective for pre & post workout. The accelerated digestion of powders may. You have a preference for solid food and that is fine, but it is not in and of itself a better choice.
As you get closer to your genetic apex, the ‘window’ becomes very important if you desire to continue your gains.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]facko wrote:
But for sure PWO you want refined, insulin spiking carbohydrates…[/quote]
I disagree. Vehemently. [/quote]
Could you expand of why you disagree?
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
What pre/post workout shake did Arnold use?[/quote]
Steroids?
[quote]
What pre/post workout shake did Ronnie use?[/quote]
Steroids and insulin?
[quote]
Yes, there are times when a shake is more convenient (i.e. 5am workout or straight after shcool/work) but the whole “must have a shake” thing is advertising bullshit aimed at exploiting the search for the “magic pill”.[/quote]
I would say that 80% of people who workout do it first thing in the morning of after school/work.
I agree most supplements are garbage but I take whey everyday and not just because I have fallen prey to villainous advertisers.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
What pre/post workout shake did Arnold use?
What pre/post workout shake did Ronnie use? (besides the setup promo shots in his video to advertise his sponsor)
What you have to realise is that if you want to sell a shit load of product, you have to create a need or desire. To make you think that you will grow like Ronnie by using a given product is just bullshit advertising.
Try this, and this is for those of you on a tight budget.
Pre workout, about an hour before. 6 whole eggs. 2 tablespoons of olive oil or a couple of cups of cooked rice.
Post workout. Same again. Or something similar, like ground beef or turkey instead of eggs.
That’s it. The magical “window” is bullshit. Yes, there are times when a shake is more convenient (i.e. 5am workout or straight after shcool/work) but the whole “must have a shake” thing is advertising bullshit aimed at exploiting the search for the “magic pill”.[/quote]
jesus christ
you sound so old its surprising you even know what the internet is
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]facko wrote:
But for sure PWO you want refined, insulin spiking carbohydrates…[/quote]
I disagree. Vehemently. [/quote]
Could you expand of why you disagree?[/quote]
Because I havent used fast carbs immediately post workout in about 4 years and I make good gains. Better gains than I do if I add fast carbs immediately post workout.
Its the same rationale behind the ANACONDA Protocol. I learned that a heavy dose of carbs and protein pre and during my workout is a lot better for body composition than fast carbs immediately post workout. I didnt know why at the time, but the science behind the ANACONDA Protocol pretty well explains it. My way isnt the only way, but it works very well for me.
Post workout carbs are good for some people, but pre and intra workout carbs/protein are far more effective IMO.
edit
that doesnt really explain why I disagree with that post. I do not think that spiking insulin post workout is superior to spiking it pre workout. At all. My mind will not change. Theres a reason injecting insulin PWO is an archaic means to grow. Pre workout insulin injections are superior. I dont use exogenous insulin but the concept is exactly the same.
Theres too much science to go into but there is evidence that you dont get a good insulin spike post workout regardless of what you eat. Has to do with catecholamines and other hormones.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
jesus christ
you sound so old its surprising you even know what the internet is [/quote]
Fuck. You sound so irrelevant it’s surprising you know where your arse is. So tell me, shit for brains, what is old? What sort of ignorant sheltered world do you live in? Oh, Skyrim. Well, Napoleon Dynamite, I bow before your epic experience… in trolling forums.
Is Andy Bolton “old”? What about Dexter Jackson? Or Jay Cutler? Or the previously mentioned Ronnie Coleman? What the fuck do you mean by “old”? Ask any 15yo and anyone over 20 is old.
But seriously folks, most of you eat so much shit you could all grow better just by eating proper food. Is whole food “better”? Of course it is. Does protein powder work? It can. Do you need it? Sometimes.
Now stop whining about protein uptake times, nutrient windows and repartitioning and go eat some meat and greens.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Because I havent used fast carbs immediately post workout in about 4 years and I make good gains. Better gains than I do if I add fast carbs immediately post workout.
Its the same rationale behind the anaconda protocol. I learned that a heavy dose of carbs and protein pre and during my workout is a lot better for body composition than fast carbs immediately post workout. I didnt know why at the time, but the science behind the anaconda protocol pretty well explains it. My way isnt the only way, but it works very well for me.
Post workout carbs are good for some people, but pre and intra workout carbs/protein are far more effective IMO.
edit
that doesnt really explain why I disagree with that post. I do not think that spiking insulin post workout is superior to spiking it pre workout. At all. My mind will not change. Theres a reason injecting insulin PWO is an archaic means to grow. Pre workout insulin injections are superior. I dont use exogenous insulin but the concept is exactly the same.
Theres too much science to go into but there is evidence that you dont get a good insulin spike post workout regardless of what you eat. Has to do with catecholamines and other hormones. [/quote]
JB was going on on the same path in his book too.
Are you on the ANACONDA Protocol?
What kind of fast carb would you use for Pre, and peri- workout if not ANACONDA or Surge?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
oh and the reason you wouldnt want to use the weight gainers, is bc of the fat content. fat slows digestion of carbs/proteins, it’ll sit in your stomach like a brick while you’re working out, IMO[/quote]
Thanks. After calculation, i get somewhat 1g per 250 calories also, like BlueCollar. Would that make much of a difference?
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
At the end of the day workout nutrition supps are a luxury. If you can’t afford’em just load up on food and eat as soon as you’re done lifting.
[/quote]
My pre-workout is $1.17 per serving (23g protein w/5g BCAA, 4g creatine, & 15g simple carb)
post-workout is $1.92 per serving (45g protein w/5g BCAA, 4g creatine & 50g simple carb)
I just drink water during. [/quote]
Simple carbs such as? Im guessing this would all come in liquid/shake form right? instead of solids.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Instead of using weight gainer for an unintended purpose, just get your hands on some whey and drink 2 scoops PWO. If you want you can add some Waxy Maize to it which is dirt cheap. Heck, you could even use table sugar.
Whey is a lot more flexible than a weight gainer anyhow.
Combine whey, oats and PB in a blender and you have a homemade weight gainer…[/quote]
That was why my question was, even if it was an unintended purpose, would the weight gainers serve to give fast absorbing carbs for pre, peri, post?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]facko wrote:
But for sure PWO you want refined, insulin spiking carbohydrates…[/quote]
I disagree. Vehemently. [/quote]
Could you expand of why you disagree?[/quote]
Because I havent used fast carbs immediately post workout in about 4 years and I make good gains. Better gains than I do if I add fast carbs immediately post workout.
Its the same rationale behind the anaconda protocol. I learned that a heavy dose of carbs and protein pre and during my workout is a lot better for body composition than fast carbs immediately post workout. I didnt know why at the time, but the science behind the anaconda protocol pretty well explains it. My way isnt the only way, but it works very well for me.
Post workout carbs are good for some people, but pre and intra workout carbs/protein are far more effective IMO.
edit
that doesnt really explain why I disagree with that post. I do not think that spiking insulin post workout is superior to spiking it pre workout. At all. My mind will not change. Theres a reason injecting insulin PWO is an archaic means to grow. Pre workout insulin injections are superior. I dont use exogenous insulin but the concept is exactly the same.
Theres too much science to go into but there is evidence that you dont get a good insulin spike post workout regardless of what you eat. Has to do with catecholamines and other hormones. [/quote]
This is really good info and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your reasoning. It does make logical sense. That being said, you may know already that I basically backload almost all or all (on some days) of my calories after training. So, that would mean carbs too…obviously. I’ve made good progress without putting on much if any fat. Then again…you are far bigger than me, lol…so perhaps I will give myself a preworkout meal more often now.
[quote]Mowgly wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Instead of using weight gainer for an unintended purpose, just get your hands on some whey and drink 2 scoops PWO. If you want you can add some Waxy Maize to it which is dirt cheap. Heck, you could even use table sugar.
Whey is a lot more flexible than a weight gainer anyhow.
Combine whey, oats and PB in a blender and you have a homemade weight gainer…[/quote]
That was why my question was, even if it was an unintended purpose, would the weight gainers serve to give fast absorbing carbs for pre, peri, post?
[/quote]
And my answer is, if money is an issue buy whey instead of a weight gainer.
Is there a reason you’re fixated on using a weight gainer in your workout nutrition?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Mowgly wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Instead of using weight gainer for an unintended purpose, just get your hands on some whey and drink 2 scoops PWO. If you want you can add some Waxy Maize to it which is dirt cheap. Heck, you could even use table sugar.
Whey is a lot more flexible than a weight gainer anyhow.
Combine whey, oats and PB in a blender and you have a homemade weight gainer…[/quote]
That was why my question was, even if it was an unintended purpose, would the weight gainers serve to give fast absorbing carbs for pre, peri, post?
[/quote]
And my answer is, if money is an issue buy whey instead of a weight gainer.
Is there a reason you’re fixated on using a weight gainer in your workout nutrition?
[/quote]
not exactly fixated, its just that i dont know any other supplements that offer both protein and carb in large quantities, and in liquid form. Dont get me wrong, i have been and will continue taking whey.
Its just that after reading S2B, i get the idea of having these kind of nutrition for pre, peri and post. So im looking for the best alternative/substitute to what JB suggested.
So Im not exactly planning to use the weight gainer simply AS as weight gainer. Any other kind of supplements that would make a better substitute to what JB suggested, I’m all ears.
[quote]Mowgly wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
oh and the reason you wouldnt want to use the weight gainers, is bc of the fat content. fat slows digestion of carbs/proteins, it’ll sit in your stomach like a brick while you’re working out, IMO[/quote]
Thanks. After calculation, i get somewhat 1g per 250 calories also, like BlueCollar. Would that make much of a difference?[/quote]
not at all. my bad, not really a WG user and the ones i looked over had high fat contents.
[quote]Mowgly wrote:
So Im not exactly planning to use the weight gainer simply AS as weight gainer. Any other kind of supplements that would make a better substitute to what JB suggested, I’m all ears.
[/quote]
I think what several are trying to get at is this…no single product is going to ‘feed your need’. Using the right weightgainer as you describe will provide the simple carbs, but I have never seen one with an adequate protein/carb ratio. The one I use has 15g protein to 50g carbs., the only way to correct the ratio is with protein(whey) only powder.
VERY IMPORTANT If your situation dictates you can only buy one product, the protein powder offers a greater ‘bang for your buck’. The world is full of simple carbohydrates.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
jesus christ
you sound so old its surprising you even know what the internet is [/quote]
Fuck. You sound so irrelevant it’s surprising you know where your arse is. So tell me, shit for brains, what is old? What sort of ignorant sheltered world do you live in? Oh, Skyrim. Well, Napoleon Dynamite, I bow before your epic experience… in trolling forums.
Is Andy Bolton “old”? What about Dexter Jackson? Or Jay Cutler? Or the previously mentioned Ronnie Coleman? What the fuck do you mean by “old”? Ask any 15yo and anyone over 20 is old.
But seriously folks, most of you eat so much shit you could all grow better just by eating proper food. Is whole food “better”? Of course it is. Does protein powder work? It can. Do you need it? Sometimes.
Now stop whining about protein uptake times, nutrient windows and repartitioning and go eat some meat and greens.[/quote]
So let’s see what kind of monster physique you built with the good-ol’ meat n greens, Champ!
FTR: I’m far from a supplement whore but I actually train harder than the average gym rat (strong man training). Hence I can’t stomach anything other than some type of carb powder with some BCAA mixed in. Sometimes I can’t even handle that.
Point is, powders and pills are a lot more convenient and easier to digest than real food in the immediate peri-workout window.
I mean, who actually takes bowls of cereal or ground turkey with them to eat in the locker room while some old dudes are drying their balls only few feet away?
Also, this is the “Supplement” forum so if you despise them, please get the fuck out, thank you.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
jesus christ
you sound so old its surprising you even know what the internet is [/quote]
Fuck. You sound so irrelevant it’s surprising you know where your arse is. So tell me, shit for brains, what is old? What sort of ignorant sheltered world do you live in? Oh, Skyrim. Well, Napoleon Dynamite, I bow before your epic experience… in trolling forums.
Is Andy Bolton “old”? What about Dexter Jackson? Or Jay Cutler? Or the previously mentioned Ronnie Coleman? What the fuck do you mean by “old”? Ask any 15yo and anyone over 20 is old.
But seriously folks, most of you eat so much shit you could all grow better just by eating proper food. Is whole food “better”? Of course it is. Does protein powder work? It can. Do you need it? Sometimes.
Now stop whining about protein uptake times, nutrient windows and repartitioning and go eat some meat and greens.[/quote]
Alright. Enough of the raving lunacy.
Are you big and lean? or, if not applicable, what do you total?
What is skyrim?
[quote]Mowgly wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Because I havent used fast carbs immediately post workout in about 4 years and I make good gains. Better gains than I do if I add fast carbs immediately post workout.
Its the same rationale behind the anaconda protocol. I learned that a heavy dose of carbs and protein pre and during my workout is a lot better for body composition than fast carbs immediately post workout. I didnt know why at the time, but the science behind the anaconda protocol pretty well explains it. My way isnt the only way, but it works very well for me.
Post workout carbs are good for some people, but pre and intra workout carbs/protein are far more effective IMO.
edit
that doesnt really explain why I disagree with that post. I do not think that spiking insulin post workout is superior to spiking it pre workout. At all. My mind will not change. Theres a reason injecting insulin PWO is an archaic means to grow. Pre workout insulin injections are superior. I dont use exogenous insulin but the concept is exactly the same.
Theres too much science to go into but there is evidence that you dont get a good insulin spike post workout regardless of what you eat. Has to do with catecholamines and other hormones. [/quote]
JB was going on on the same path in his book too.
Are you on the ANACONDA Protocol?
What kind of fast carb would you use for Pre, and peri- workout if not ANACONDA or Surge?
[/quote]
I cant afford those supplements and still live a productive life. I use maltodextrin/dextrose powder, kool aid powder, gatorade powder and a protein blend, plus other things like cocoa powder, leucine, creatine. In addition to Metabolic Drive.
It really doesnt matter what GI your carbs are on the whole. The amount of carbs you eat is most important. Find what works for you. Then refine your intake to maximize results. the TYPE of fast carbs you have pre-workout is very much in the realm of refinement.
[quote]facko wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]JLone wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]facko wrote:
But for sure PWO you want refined, insulin spiking carbohydrates…[/quote]
I disagree. Vehemently. [/quote]
Could you expand of why you disagree?[/quote]
Because I havent used fast carbs immediately post workout in about 4 years and I make good gains. Better gains than I do if I add fast carbs immediately post workout.
Its the same rationale behind the anaconda protocol. I learned that a heavy dose of carbs and protein pre and during my workout is a lot better for body composition than fast carbs immediately post workout. I didnt know why at the time, but the science behind the anaconda protocol pretty well explains it. My way isnt the only way, but it works very well for me.
Post workout carbs are good for some people, but pre and intra workout carbs/protein are far more effective IMO.
edit
that doesnt really explain why I disagree with that post. I do not think that spiking insulin post workout is superior to spiking it pre workout. At all. My mind will not change. Theres a reason injecting insulin PWO is an archaic means to grow. Pre workout insulin injections are superior. I dont use exogenous insulin but the concept is exactly the same.
Theres too much science to go into but there is evidence that you dont get a good insulin spike post workout regardless of what you eat. Has to do with catecholamines and other hormones. [/quote]
This is really good info and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your reasoning. It does make logical sense. That being said, you may know already that I basically backload almost all or all (on some days) of my calories after training. So, that would mean carbs too…obviously. I’ve made good progress without putting on much if any fat. Then again…you are far bigger than me, lol…so perhaps I will give myself a preworkout meal more often now.
[/quote]
I acknowledge that people make good gains eating carbs post workout. But I think that many people would do better with my approach. And im talking immediately post workout. I eat plenty of carbs in my meal after the gym anywhere from 40-60 minutes later.
edit
and when i say “good gains” im talking about adding muscle. My goal is to never get fat at all and that’s my goal because I know Im capable of that, genetically. Ive have abs my whole life and I dont plan to change that. I dont care if theres a way to add 60 pounds of mass in 6 months. that’s not what Im about.