T Nation

Weight Gain Reality?

Just wandering what some of your inputs might be on this issue:

I have been lifting to gain mass and doing a bulking cycle, up until about 3 days ago, I really wasn’t eating enough, I sat down and figured that I was lucky to be intaking 2200 calories a day, about 700 of those from mountain dew. I stopped drinking the dew, and changed to water and gatorade. Also, I started counting my calories, over the last 3 days I averaged an intake of 3500 a day with 300+ grams protein about 100 grams of fat and 400 grams of carbs.
Now here is where the reality sets in for me:
I am lifting heavy and eating good(I could still eat better, but doing much better than ever before)…I weighed right at about 169.5 on sunday morning with shoes, shorts and shirt on…this morning I weighed in at slightly over 175 with just underwear on,
now could this be muscle gain with fat gain, or is it just the extra food I am eating that is staying with me(waiting for me to crap it out)?
I do feel bigger, and my girlfriend said that I looked considerably bigger;
my uniform in the shoulders and the legs in my pants are tighter too, sucks cause now I have to buy new ones, at first I thought that it was all fat, but then I can still see my abs just as good as before.

What do you think it is? Am I on the right track for reaching my goal of 185(ultimate goal is 200, but I have an intermediate goal too)

water weight

[quote]jsteele wrote:
Just wandering what some of your inputs might be on this issue:

I have been lifting to gain mass and doing a bulking cycle, up until about 3 days ago, I really wasn’t eating enough, I sat down and figured that I was lucky to be intaking 2200 calories a day, about 700 of those from mountain dew. I stopped drinking the dew, and changed to water and gatorade. Also, I started counting my calories, over the last 3 days I averaged an intake of 3500 a day with 300+ grams protein about 100 grams of fat and 400 grams of carbs.
Now here is where the reality sets in for me:
I am lifting heavy and eating good(I could still eat better, but doing much better than ever before)…I weighed right at about 169.5 on sunday morning with shoes, shorts and shirt on…this morning I weighed in at slightly over 175 with just underwear on,
now could this be muscle gain with fat gain, or is it just the extra food I am eating that is staying with me(waiting for me to crap it out)?
I do feel bigger, and my girlfriend said that I looked considerably bigger;
my uniform in the shoulders and the legs in my pants are tighter too, sucks cause now I have to buy new ones, at first I thought that it was all fat, but then I can still see my abs just as good as before.

What do you think it is? Am I on the right track for reaching my goal of 185(ultimate goal is 200, but I have an intermediate goal too)[/quote]

It’s not too smart to jump from 2200 calories to 3500+ in just three days. Do you have any measurements that can prove its muscle or pics to show its fat?
its probably some of both. but i dont think you can gain that much fat/muscle in 3 days, did you eat a lot of sodium the day before, could be water retention…

very possible, but I drank lots of water before, not quite what I am drinking now, just changed my regular dews for a glass of ice water or a gatorade,

thanks for the input,

actually just thought of getting measurements today, don’t know why it didn’t cross my mind, also going to take a pic today, can post if you care, not going to be naked, just shorts though, want to use it as a before photo for my own reference with the measurements, that way I can get a better picture of how I changed when I look back,

how long do you all usually bulk??
like 2 months, or until I hit the weight I want to be at?

Just wondering, I was caught up in gaining weight before, but never ate like I should have, now 2 years into working out, I actually got my crap together and figured out hey, I have been a puy in the gym, eat and lift heavy, don’t be such a bih, and gained over 5 lbs already, even if it is water weight, hell I haven’t been even close to 175 in over 3 years, so it’s working as far as I am concerned,

thanks again for the input.

[quote]jsteele wrote:
actually just thought of getting measurements today, don’t know why it didn’t cross my mind, also going to take a pic today, can post if you care, not going to be naked, just shorts though, want to use it as a before photo for my own reference with the measurements, that way I can get a better picture of how I changed when I look back,

how long do you all usually bulk??
like 2 months, or until I hit the weight I want to be at?

Just wondering, I was caught up in gaining weight before, but never ate like I should have, now 2 years into working out, I actually got my crap together and figured out hey, I have been a puy in the gym, eat and lift heavy, don’t be such a bih, and gained over 5 lbs already, even if it is water weight, hell I haven’t been even close to 175 in over 3 years, so it’s working as far as I am concerned,

thanks again for the input.[/quote]

Keep gaining weight untill you hit just above your goal (10-20lb’s). So, when you completely clear up your diet and burn off any fat you gained & water retention, you will be really close to your goal but lean. Hope this helps.

To expand on what I said:

The great majority of the weight you gained is water weight because:

-You greatly increased you calories specificly alot more carbs, and every gram of carbs stored takes along something like 4 grams of water

-It is commonly accepted that 1lb of fat has 3500 calories so even if you didnt build anymuscle your 3 day calorie surplus wasnt great enough for much fat storage.

-Hopefully some weight training happened in these three days so in all likely hood you built some muscle, but like the fat 3 days isnt enough time for much.

Keep at it and be proud your finally on the right track.

[quote]jsteele wrote:

how long do you all usually bulk??
like 2 months, or until I hit the weight I want to be at?[/quote]

I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals. [/quote]

I think sometimes you forget that for some people, looking “good” is a means, not an end. The way you looked for 4 years might not be how other people would want to look. Most of the time I support (in spirit, not in words) what you say whenever a very lean guy asks if he should bulk or cut, but you should remember that not everyone’s goals and ideal self image are the same as yours.

Getting sickly huge isn’t for everyone.

[quote]AggieJohn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals.

I think sometimes you forget that for some people, looking “good” is a means, not an end. The way you looked for 4 years might not be how other people would want to look. Most of the time I support (in spirit, not in words) what you say whenever a very lean guy asks if he should bulk or cut, but you should remember that not everyone’s goals and ideal self image are the same as yours.

Getting sickly huge isn’t for everyone. [/quote]

Sickly huge? Exactly how “huge” is that? My original short term goal was to simply weigh 180lbs. Upon reaching and that realizing that particular weight didn’t exactly make me all that “developed” I aimed for higher. No one wrote that everyone has the same goals. What was written is that dieting down every two months because you lost an ab is a great way to make NO long term progress.

[quote]AggieJohn wrote:
Getting sickly huge isn’t for everyone. [/quote]
So what? you still need a decent base of size so as not to look like a stickman or disappear from the side (for some, such as myself) I don’t plan to stop bulking for a long, long time.

You just need to do something similar to X’s bulking but for less time no?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsteele wrote:

how long do you all usually bulk??
like 2 months, or until I hit the weight I want to be at?

I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals. [/quote]

You should save these in a word doc. Different versions of prof x’s “answer.”

Then anytime someone needs to hear it, you can just cut-and-paste.

I bet you’d use that doc at least once a day?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
AggieJohn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals.

I think sometimes you forget that for some people, looking “good” is a means, not an end. The way you looked for 4 years might not be how other people would want to look. Most of the time I support (in spirit, not in words) what you say whenever a very lean guy asks if he should bulk or cut, but you should remember that not everyone’s goals and ideal self image are the same as yours.

Getting sickly huge isn’t for everyone.

Sickly huge? Exactly how “huge” is that? My original short term goal was to simply weigh 180lbs. Upon reaching and that realizing that particular weight didn’t exactly make me all that “developed” I aimed for higher. No one wrote that everyone has the same goals. What was written is that dieting down every two months because you lost an ab is a great way to make NO long term progress.[/quote]

I was just curious as to how your response would have been different if he didn’t include that last sentence?

[quote]cataklysque wrote:

I was just curious as to how your response would have been different if he didn’t include that last sentence?[/quote]

If you are being serious, then I have to ask those who think they will somehow jump into this and immediately begin looking like magazine cover models why they are lifting to begin with.

If your goals are so minimal that you are nearly there already and you are just a beginner, why would you be on this site?

[quote]cataklysque wrote:
Professor X wrote:
AggieJohn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I didn’t diet down for over 4 years from the day I started and even then it was just to drop a few pounds and wasn’t anything drastic. I was just working on my overall fitness level. Why would you diet down before you ever get close to your goal?

Someone who would begin dieting after only two months must either expect the LEAST amount progress or have some very unamazing goals.

I think sometimes you forget that for some people, looking “good” is a means, not an end. The way you looked for 4 years might not be how other people would want to look. Most of the time I support (in spirit, not in words) what you say whenever a very lean guy asks if he should bulk or cut, but you should remember that not everyone’s goals and ideal self image are the same as yours.

Getting sickly huge isn’t for everyone.

Sickly huge? Exactly how “huge” is that? My original short term goal was to simply weigh 180lbs. Upon reaching and that realizing that particular weight didn’t exactly make me all that “developed” I aimed for higher. No one wrote that everyone has the same goals. What was written is that dieting down every two months because you lost an ab is a great way to make NO long term progress.

I was just curious as to how your response would have been different if he didn’t include that last sentence?[/quote]

I think a lot of guys (and gals) would agree that pic of Stan Mcquay in that metro thread is pretty bad ass and how many guys would strive to look. The problem is to even remotely venture any where close to that will take some years of dedicated training and nutrition to reach.

If a guy wants to come to a bodybuilding site and admits they weight 150 pounds and says I am eating 2000 cals a day and doing arm curls and tri kick backs seven days and want to look like Serge Nubret then they need a reality check for their own good.

If they just want to maintain their very lean non muscular look they shouldn’t be asking about bulking advice.

I am not advocating one bulking to be obese for many years. One can eat follow a diet and training program that can keep them in the 14 to 16 percent bodyfat range as they “bulk” over a few years and develop a good base of strength and body composition.

Instead as ProfX rails against many add 100 cals to an already sparse diet for two weeks and then want to cut. Well that’s okay, but don’t expect to make any appreciable muscle gains.

Whether it’s ProfX, Caveman, or some to of the other members who compete are made outstanding gains, they know it takes a lot of self education and patience. This site provides the first need (education) many are lacking in the second (patience).

D

[quote]Professor X wrote:
cataklysque wrote:

I was just curious as to how your response would have been different if he didn’t include that last sentence?

If you are being serious [/quote]

I was being serious, sorry if it seemed sarcastic.

Solid point.

[quote]jsteele wrote:
Just wandering what some of your inputs might be on this issue:

I have been lifting to gain mass and doing a bulking cycle, up until about 3 days ago, I really wasn’t eating enough, I sat down and figured that I was lucky to be intaking 2200 calories a day, about 700 of those from mountain dew. I stopped drinking the dew, and changed to water and gatorade. Also, I started counting my calories, over the last 3 days I averaged an intake of 3500 a day with 300+ grams protein about 100 grams of fat and 400 grams of carbs.
Now here is where the reality sets in for me:
I am lifting heavy and eating good(I could still eat better, but doing much better than ever before)…I weighed right at about 169.5 on sunday morning with shoes, shorts and shirt on…this morning I weighed in at slightly over 175 with just underwear on,
now could this be muscle gain with fat gain, or is it just the extra food I am eating that is staying with me(waiting for me to crap it out)?
I do feel bigger, and my girlfriend said that I looked considerably bigger;
my uniform in the shoulders and the legs in my pants are tighter too, sucks cause now I have to buy new ones, at first I thought that it was all fat, but then I can still see my abs just as good as before.

What do you think it is? Am I on the right track for reaching my goal of 185(ultimate goal is 200, but I have an intermediate goal too)[/quote]

First off how tall are you? Big difference between 6’1" and 200 vs 5’9" and 20. Secoond off 2 months is like no time to bulk. Bulking needs to go on for a minimum of 3-5 months IMHO, and MORE IMPORTANTLY you need to spend a good 2 months at your new weight before even considering dropping some of the fat that you WILL gain.

I went from 170 last May to 210 in early Spring before rugby and am now at 195. Over 30 pounds of muscle gained since I am at a lower BF than when I started (can you say skinny-fat anyone?). Right now I plan to drop some more fat, while staying around 195-200 simply because I felt alot slower at the higher bodyfat than I liked. Once rugby is over its a nice bulk all the way through till April/May, then maintain till Julyish, then cut a little, followed by maintenance in fall season. Rinse and repeat till I get where I wanna be.

I can tell you right now you can be 200 no problems this time next year, just put your mind to it and don’t puss out and come up with a million fucking excuses or whine about your abs like the other million threads we get in here. Feel free to pm me and ask some more questions, or post them here and I’ll respond as well.

I think that you all are right to some degree, while not everyones goals are the same, everyone on here wants to be bigger and stronger, so we all share the same goals,

as far as my goals, yeah my ultimate goal is 200, but didn’t know if I should do it in two cycles or just keep bulking until I reach that weight.
With the input that I got already from this post, I am now shooting for 205-210 then start cutting to meet my goal.
That about 35-40 pounds, so that’s my long term goal, probably more than a years worth.

thanks for you help, and any more input would be greatly appreciated

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If you are being serious, then I have to ask those who think they will somehow jump into this and immediately begin looking like magazine cover models why they are lifting to begin with.

If your goals are so minimal that you are nearly there already and you are just a beginner, why would you be on this site?[/quote]

I think there are valid reasons for trying to lose the fat before you begin bulking. Before I started lifting last year, I was 215 lbs at about 30% bf. I’m now down to 190 lbs at about 15% bf with an intermediate goal of 180 lbs at about 10% bf. (I’m 6’1".)

Why’d I want to lose the fat before bulking if I have no muscle to speak of? Because I have something to prove to myself. I spent far too much time overweight and out of shape. It’s been a pain in the ass to develop good nutrition and training habits. But I’m old enough to know how my mind works, and I knew that if I didn’t prove to myself that I had the discipline to lose the fat I’d accumulated that I would most likely not be able to stick with lifting. I made things a little more difficult for myself so that I’d have to work harder and therefore appreciate the effort it takes to add muscle.

Losing my gut has been a sort of penance for the decade I spent being a pig. It’s a form of self-punishment designed to help me develop the discipline I need to gain some serious muscle. That may not make sense to some, but in my lifetime I’ve done enough hobbies half-assed that I know I need to prove to myself that I’m going to stick with lifting.

Do I think I look good? Well, I sure as hell look better than I did a year ago, but I have no illusions. I’m still a skinny bastard. Bulking up is going to be my reward for dropping the fat. For me it has to be that way or else I’d probably never stick with it.

REN:

Thank you very much for that post,
I am a little over 5-9 in height.

Your information you included in your post was really helpful, right now I know that I will be bulking for probably throughout this year and into next to reach my goal. The info you included about the minimum time frame for bulking and the 2 month minimum at my goal weight before I start cutting will help me out greatly in the future.

please keep the input coming,

thanks all