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Weight Gain Diet for Ectomorph

So I’m looking to put on some serious mass. Here are my stats:

age: 17
height: 5’11"
weight: 155lbs
body fat percent: not sure, but I’m pretty cut up, so probably at or just under 10%
somatype: ectomorph (with a bit of meso I’d like to believe)

Here’s the diet I plan on being on when I begin my serious training after winter break (college apps sorta take up most of my time now):

Breakfast (around 6:45)

  • 1 scoop of gold standard whey protein (24g protein)
  • either 1 cup of oatmeal or 1 cup of granola
  • small bowl of salad drenched in olive oil and vinegar
  • 2 fish oil pills
  • 1 vitaimin C pill
  • multivitamin
  • large glass of water
  • bottle of gatorade (for that insulin spike)

Mid-Morning (around 10:20)

  • 2 scoops of muscle milk
  • bacon/ham, egg, and cheese sandwich
  • a few cashews or peanuts (probly about 1/2 a cup)
  • 2 fish oil pills

Lunch (about 1:00)

  • massive sandwich stuffed with ham/turkey and cheese
  • bowl of salad with olive oil and vinegar
  • plate of pasta or rice
  • bowl of fruit
  • 2 cups of 2% milk
  • 2 cups of water
  • 2 fish oil pills
  • 1 vitamin C pill

Pre-Workout (about 3:00)

  • 2-3 scoops of NO-Xplode

Post-Workout (about 4:00 - 4:30)

  • 1 scoop of Cellmass immediately after
  • 4 scoops of Cytogainer (so 1 serving) about 20 minutes after that
  • bottle of gatorade (again for the insulin spike)
  • 1 vitamin C pill

Dinner (about 6:30 - 7:00)
(the kinds of food changes but this is the general layout of dinner)

  • large portion of meat (usually chicken)
  • large portion of starch-kinda-thing (pasta, rice)
  • large portion of veggies
  • large bowl of salad
  • glass of milk
  • 2 fish oil pills

Before Bed (about 9:00 - 9:30)

  • 1 scoop of cellmass
  • about 20 minutes later, 4 scoops (1 serving) of cytogainer
  • 1 vitamin C pill

Then I go to bed and hope I don’t puke in my sleep.

Speaking of sleep, I usualy get 7 to 8 hours of it. Is this enough?

Now some questions:

  1. Is the whole insulin spike thing good? and if it is, is gatorade a good drink to stimulate one?

  2. Should I take BCAA pills? throughout the day or just after I workout?

  3. I’ve been thinking about taking the Universal Animal Pak multivitamin thing. Am I too young or is there anything else wrong with doing this?

For the first 10 weeks of my training, I will being doing a chest specialization routine. Believe it or not, I have enjoy back and leg days and so I’m over developed in that area and my chest has suffered. If strength is any testament to size (which is not really but whatever), I can deadlift 285 for 8 solid reps, but only bench press 160 for shakey reps 8 reps.

I know this is the nutrition forum, but if anyone would like the help with the chest underdevelopement issue, I’d be thankful.

So thats my diet and stuff. Any suggestions?

Ur diet doesnt sound too bad however the correct measurement of each portion would be needed to determine the amount of cals/protein/carbs/fats you are taking in per day. Words such as “large portion” are too vague to give a serious reccomendation to.

In the morning, instead of a gatorade, try a banana. Personally I don’t feel as though you need to “spike” your insulin in the morning as your are just coming out of sleep and going about your day.

The only time I would spike it with a gatorade or some other simple carbohydrate would be immediatly after a workout, but even then keep the portions small. Whats more important in the morning is kick starting your metabolism, which you are doing a good job of with the whey protein (fast absorbing).

As for the animal pack, you may be a victim of aggressive advertising as it is nothing more than a multi-vitamin. I prefer AST’s mutli, but a GNC megaman would be fine as well. The animal pack is over-priced and over-hyped.

As per your question of strength, a good standard for deadlift is twice your bodyweight in perfect form.

Having an underdeveloped chest indicates to me that you may have overcompensating shoulders. So from now on you should try to squeeze your scapulas together when your benching to try to minimize your front delt involvement. Take the weight down on bench until you do it with perfect form. I would also incorporate heavy incline bp as this is a nice chest builder.

[quote]inhuman08 wrote:
Breakfast (around 6:45)

  • 1 scoop of gold standard whey protein (24g protein)
  • either 1 cup of oatmeal or 1 cup of granola
  • small bowl of salad drenched in olive oil and vinegar
  • 2 fish oil pills
  • 1 vitaimin C pill
  • multivitamin
  • large glass of water
  • bottle of gatorade (for that insulin spike)[/quote]
    Drop the gatorade it’s just junk food. Add a little more protein (omelette with spinach, lean meat).

[quote]
Mid-Morning (around 10:20)

  • 2 scoops of muscle milk
  • bacon/ham, egg, and cheese sandwich
  • a few cashews or peanuts (probly about 1/2 a cup)
  • 2 fish oil pills[/quote]
    Bacon, egg, cheese sandwich is junk food. You may be able to get away with it because you are skinny. Instead of a shake, why not a regular meal? Meat, veggies, rice/yam?

[quote]
Lunch (about 1:00)

  • massive sandwich stuffed with ham/turkey and cheese
  • bowl of salad with olive oil and vinegar
  • plate of pasta or rice
  • bowl of fruit
  • 2 cups of 2% milk
  • 2 cups of water
  • 2 fish oil pills
  • 1 vitamin C pill[/quote]
    Not too bad. Try and use the highest quality of breads and pastas you can though. Whole wheat, organic if possible.

[quote]
Pre-Workout (about 3:00)

  • 2-3 scoops of NO-Xplode[/quote]
    Worthless, quit wasting your money.

[quote]
Post-Workout (about 4:00 - 4:30)

  • 1 scoop of Cellmass immediately after
  • 4 scoops of Cytogainer (so 1 serving) about 20 minutes after that
  • bottle of gatorade (again for the insulin spike)
  • 1 vitamin C pill[/quote]
    Cellmass and Ctyogainer are another waste of money. Get a postworkout specific shake (like Surge, http://www.T-Nation.com/onlineStore.jsp ) and some creatine monohydrate. Save yourself a lot of money and have a superior product.

[quote]
Dinner (about 6:30 - 7:00)
(the kinds of food changes but this is the general layout of dinner)

  • large portion of meat (usually chicken)
  • large portion of starch-kinda-thing (pasta, rice)
  • large portion of veggies
  • large bowl of salad
  • glass of milk
  • 2 fish oil pills[/quote]
    good.

[quote]
Before Bed (about 9:00 - 9:30)

  • 1 scoop of cellmass
  • about 20 minutes later, 4 scoops (1 serving) of cytogainer
  • 1 vitamin C pill[/quote]
    Cytogainer is just whey right? You should have something that doesn’t digest so fast before bed. Like a casein protein, or a casein/whey blend. (Metabolic Drive is a good choice, or cottage cheese.)

Is it? Are you lethargic? Do you have energy to workout?

Gatorade is effective in eliciting an insulin spike. Do you want that? It depends. Post Workout, yes, which is where you have some, that’s ok. Surge would be better. Other than post workout, you want your blood sugar to remain relatively constant throughout the day. Not go up and down.

At the least, peri-workout. Upon waking and before bed are also good options. Also, in the middle of the night can be effective according to some of the authors here on this site.

Is it just a multi? If so, then you should be fine.

In regards to your training…You weigh 155 pounds…you’re actually not that big. Just train hard and eat right, and you’ll develop all over. Don’t worry about specialization yet. You’re probably small all over, it’s hard to tell with the Myspace photo.

Go read the stickies in the beginners’ forum. Then keep reading all of those articles. Learn and apply. You are in a great point in your life to gain size. And you are skinny, so you don’t have to worry as much about gaining unwanted fat.

Now go.

Thanks for the replies guys.

So in response to PozzSka:

For breakfast, I dropped the gatorade, added BCAAs and, because I don’t have much time to make breakfast, I think I’ll just grab some leftover meat from the night before or sliced turkey/chicken.

For my mid-morning meal, I only have about 15 minutes to make/wolf it, so I can’t really have a real meal, although I usual prefer real meals. My school makes bacon, egg, and cheeses, so thats why i eat one. I can run out and by a premade sandwich though, which I think would be a good replacement. Here, I go for muscle milk instead of the pure whey to get some extra calories.

I’ll grab some casein protein for my before bed meal.

Now about the pre-workout and post-workout meals. What should I eat? haha Ive read a bunch of different stuff on this and Im not sure what to do.

Also, just supplements in general. I don’t really want to buy individual supplements, like an only glutamine supplement and an only arginine supplement. I’ve been looking at the cellmass, NO-xplode, etc and they have all of these individual supplements in the product. Maybe I have it all wrong haha I am a beginner, but could you give me a list of supplements that are effective, and when and how much to take.

With the info I have now, I’m thinking about BCAAs, glutamine, arginine, and creatine, all of which are in the supplements I was planning on using (the BSN ones). I looked at Surge and it looks awesome, but what exactly is in it?

And about the training. Although I don’t know much about nutrition (I am on this forum haha), I do know a fair amout about training. I can write up what I plan on doing after winter break if you think that would be useful. I based it off of an article on this website, so it should be good.

Also, I just got paid and Im making a trip to GNC either tomorrow or friday (the 20% discount with the store card ends after friday, so I want to get there soon), so if you could recommend actual supplements and protein and everything that would be awesome.

And to Upsizin:

To tell you the truth, the exact amounts of the specific foods I eat probably change a bit day to day, as well as the exact veggie or meat. I am still in high school so a lot of what I am able to eat is dictated by my parents (for breakfast and dinner) or the school cafeteria (mid-morning, lunch). So I cant really get exact measurements on the protein, carbs, fat, etc.

I’m heading to GNC tomorrow, so I will check out the GNC megaman. I’m really just looking for a multivitamin designed for someone who is working out a lot, as opposed to an average joe.

I did some light sets of bench today just to see if I could feel my chest more by how I push. The “pushing in” technique seems to make me feel my chest more, so I might try to focus on that a bit while Im doing heavier bench. I use very good form (according to my coach, who I assume knows what hes talking about) - I stop the bar right about my chest (less than an inch, I dont bounce), my feet are on the ground, my ass is down, my chest expanded, i breath out on the up and out on the down.

Thanks for the advice.

[quote]inhuman08 wrote:

To tell you the truth, the exact amounts of the specific foods I eat probably change a bit day to day, as well as the exact veggie or meat. I am still in high school so a lot of what I am able to eat is dictated by my parents (for breakfast and dinner) or the school cafeteria (mid-morning, lunch). So I cant really get exact measurements on the protein, carbs, fat, etc.
Thanks for the advice.[/quote]

When you ask for help you have to realize the effort people will put into replies are based on how much effort you yourself put into your diet

You need to at least have the motivation to make//pack your lunch for school and control what you eat. Measuring isnt hard, tracking your diet isnt that hard. But it will help other people give you better advice. Since you eat what your parents by

Youre saying you get your sandwich from school and high school for me wasnt long ago…bottom line- crappy lunch meat which they give you not a hell of a lot of. So make your own lunch. Theyre are plenty of guys on T-Nation who may have a restaurant or cafeteria by their office, but they choose to make and eat their own food.

[quote]PozzSka wrote:
Bacon, egg, cheese sandwich is junk food.
[/quote]

How is this considered “junk food?”

It sounds great to me for someone in need of calories.

Millerizer130, youre right. Right now, at the point in high school that I am in, I do not really have the time to embrace bodybuilding to the extent I would like to. The diet I have written here is for what I plan to eat when I get back from winter break (aka second semester senior year).

I will make an effort to get all the measurements for the foods. My only problem is dinner because the kinds of food I eat will change on a nightly basis.

And dont insult the school sandwiches haha I like my sandwiches so full I can barely bite them…

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
PozzSka wrote:
Bacon, egg, cheese sandwich is junk food.

How is this considered “junk food?”

It sounds great to me for someone in need of calories.[/quote]

It’s high school cafeteria food. A lean 4 oz of meat, some veggies w/EVOO and a yam, would be a “cleaner” meal. That’s what I meant by junk food. You buy bacon, egg, cheese snadwiches at the gas station. They don’t belong in a “clean” diet.

[quote]inhuman08 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys.

So in response to PozzSka:

For breakfast, I dropped the gatorade, added BCAAs and, because I don’t have much time to make breakfast, I think I’ll just grab some leftover meat from the night before or sliced turkey/chicken.[/quote]
That’s a good idea. I do the same thing.

[quote]
For my mid-morning meal, I only have about 15 minutes to make/wolf it, so I can’t really have a real meal, although I usual prefer real meals. My school makes bacon, egg, and cheeses, so thats why i eat one. I can run out and by a premade sandwich though, which I think would be a good replacement. Here, I go for muscle milk instead of the pure whey to get some extra calories.[/quote]
Understood, anything is better than nothing. As long as you are not prone to gaining fat, you should be fine.

[quote]
I’ll grab some casein protein for my before bed meal.[/quote]
Metabolic Drive is awesome.

Pre workout is, from what i’ve seen and read about other’s opinions, very individualized. Everyone has a different pre workout meal, some like protein and fats, some like protein and carbs. Bottom line, drop the NO-Xplode its a waste of money. It’s caffiene and creatine. have a cup of coffee and buy some Creatine monohydrate (13 bucks will last one person months, throw it in your post workout shake.)
Post Workout is different. Most (if not all, baring a low-carb diet) people benefit from a high carb + protein drink post workout. Go search and find the roundtable on PWO. Surge is the best product out there for this.

[quote]I looked at Surge and it looks awesome, but what exactly is in it?[/quote] Go to the Store and read the label. In short, fast protein, fast carbs, 0 fat, and BCAA’s.

post it.

Ive heard a lot of good things about Surge so Ill definitely try it. Is it available at Vitamin Shop or GNC, or only on the online store?

So Ive made some changes to my routine and it looks like it needs work now, but after I write it up, Ill explain why I made the changes.

So instead of a 2 days on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off, Ive changed it to a 3 on, 1 off. Pretty much every exercise I pyramid from 12 or 15 reps down to 6 or 8, increasing weight each set.

Day1 (quads, chest, tris)

Leg ExtensionsX3
Back SquatsX4
Incline Dumbell PressX5
Flat Dumbell PressX5
Incline Dumbell FlyesX3
SkullcrushersX4
Single Reverse Grip PressdownsX3

Day2 (hams, back, bis)

Lying Leg CurlsX3
Romanian DeadliftsX4
PullupsX5
Seated Cable RowsX5
Lying Dumbell PulloversX3
Barbell CurlsX4
Overhand Preacher CurlsX3

Day3 (shoulders, traps, calves)

Overhead Dumbell PressX4
Bentover Lateral RaisesX3
Lateral RaisesX3
Upright Rows (close grip)X3
Barbell ShrugsX3
For calves, I usually do 6 circuits made up of three exercises, one weighted for 15 to 20 reps, then two just bodyweight for 25 to 30 reps. This has been the only way that Ive been able to get my calves to respond.

Day4

Rest. I was thinking about maybe doing 10 to 15 minutes of light cardio then 10 minutes of streching as well (I stretch after my workouts as well, but only briefly and only for the muscles I used that day. For this stretching I would do my whole body for a longer period of time)

So I realize that changing from my original split to the 4 day cycle, my rest time will be greatly reduced. However, Im counting on Surge, that Im young, and that I reduced the volume per body part to keep me from overtraining. If I feel like Im doing too much, I can always rest two days instead of one and then jump right back into it. Tell me if this is abosolutely retarded haha.

I could give you a rundown of each of my workouts and why I chose certain exercises, but in general, I chose a “mass” exercise for each bodypart where I can pile on the weight, and then an exercise that targets what I perceive as a weakness in my developement (ex. long head of my tricep, so I put in the reversegrip pressdowns) or what is a common weakness (ex. rear delts, so I didnt put them dead last in my shoulder routine).

Each of my workouts might be long, I havent tried them yet. If they are, I will try supersetting execises. Ive already gotten my rest times down to 60-90 seconds.

So tomorrow is the last day to get a big discount at GNC so Im heading there to get some stuff. I will be checking this thread in the morning to see if anyone has suggested any supplements… if not I will try to make you guys proud haha. And honestly if I buy useless crap I have a friend who will take them.

Hey man,

If you’re having difficulty getting enough calories for breakfast, eat what you’re eating now but also try to get a protein shake in there too. Get a shake container from GNC for like $5, make one the night before and refrigerate it.

They’re quick, and you can put all sorts of shit in there, because frankly when you blend it all up you can’t taste half of it.

Also, I highly recommend grabbing your parents credit card and shopping here at T-Nation, prices are whey (yeah, I said whey) better and so is the quality.

As for supps, keep it simple:

Creatine Monohydrate (no designer shit)
Glutamine
BCAA’s
Whey protein

Good luck!

So heres my supplement plan:

Breakfast (6:45)

  • 3 BCAA pills (about 2.4g)
  • 1 scoop Gold Standard Whey (24g whey, 5.5g BCAAs)
  • 1 vitamin C pill (500mg)
  • 2 fish oil pills (1250mg)
  • 1 GNC megaman sport multivitamin pack (obviously this has got a lot of vitamins in it but its made for athletes)

Mid-Morning (10:15)

  • 3 BCAA pills
  • 1 scoop Gold Standard Whey
  • 2 fish oil pills

Lunch (12:30 - 1:00)

  • 2 fish oil pills
  • 1 vitamin C pill

Pre-Workout (2:45 - 3:15)

  • 1 scoop Gold Standard Whey
  • 3 BCAA pills
  • 5g creatine (monohydrate)
  • 5g glutamine

Post-Workout (4:15 - 4:45)

  • 1.5 scoops Gold Standard Whey (36g whey, 8.25g BCAAs)
  • 3 BCAA pills
  • 5g creatine
  • 5g glutamine

Dinner (6:30 - 7:00)

  • 2 fish oil pills

Before Bed (10:00)

  • 1 vitamin C pill
  • 1 scoop Gold Standard Casein (24g casein, 10g BCAAs)
  • 5g glutamine
  • 3 BCAA pills

Night (2:00) - I’m not sure if I’m going to do this - have any of you guys tried it?

  • 1 scoop Gold Standard Casein

[quote]PozzSka wrote:
HK24719 wrote:
PozzSka wrote:
Bacon, egg, cheese sandwich is junk food.

How is this considered “junk food?”

It sounds great to me for someone in need of calories.

It’s high school cafeteria food. A lean 4 oz of meat, some veggies w/EVOO and a yam, would be a “cleaner” meal. That’s what I meant by junk food. You buy bacon, egg, cheese snadwiches at the gas station. They don’t belong in a “clean” diet.[/quote]

I hope most ectos don’t get this anal as they’ll never gain much if they’re so worried about eating “clean” all the time.

I say go for the sandwich, some pizza, or a burger.

Unless you’re overly fat, it’s counter-productive to get that anal about eating clean. You need protein and calories.

I realize that I probably could eat a bacon egg and cheese or a hamburger and be perfectly fine, but I think that PozzSka has a point in terms of it just being a bit healthier to eat a “cleaner” meal.

It wouldnt take that much more effort for me to just pack myself a sandwich and some granola for a mid morning meal. If I slack off and forget or just dont have enough time to do this, I can always run out to a deli or to the cafeteria without much fear of putting on unwanted pounds.