T Nation

Weak Pull


Last night I almost got a 100kg clean. The concerning thing is, my deadlift is only 120kg (haven't changed practically as long as I remember). That makes me think that probably, soon my clean would be limited by my pulling strength.

Do you think that I should devote some of my time in the gym to increase my pulling strength? Or just doing pulls (usually about 10kg more than my PR) is enough?


After rethinking my situation, a 1.2 ratio of deadlift VS clean might not be that bad because I know a 62kg lifter who can clean 175kg and his 1RM clean pull is about 230kg. So his "deadlift" VS clean ratio is about 1.3. Another 62kg lifter clean pulls 150kg and cleans 120kg (1.25).

BTW what's your clean and DL/max clean pull number?


A 62 lifter who can clean 175? That's world class.


Yes, he's competing in the world championship as a 62kg lifter in the A category (310 start). Eko Yuli Irawan.


He lifted this morning (yesterday Paris time). Did you get to see?


No, my connection is not fast enough to stream the live feed. I could probably save it but I'm too lazy to try.

Do you know the results for Men's 62kg BTW?


I think he came 3rd, really impressive lifting, couldn't get up from 175 I think. He did 139/171, 3rd! Booyah!



Thanks, Koing!

BTW my friend who has trained with him mentioned that he could clean more than 180kg in training, although with a bodyweight way more than 62kg. Maybe moving up to 69kg isn't competitive for him yet.


At 62kg each half kilo makes a huge difference! But either way very impressive to make an A class let alone get 3rd! But that is probably not a lot of consolation to the guy imo who is fighting for 1st.

BTW my DL is only 200kg and I Cleaned 167.5kg yesterday on the 3rd day of lifting in a row. Up your FS is my answer to helping your Cn out the most imo as well as lifting heavy once your technique is good.



So, Koing, you DL to clean ratio is almost exactly like mine! I guess I shouldn't worry then.


It's not how muc you DL, it's how much you can Cn.

Focus on hammering your FS up.

What does your coach say? Maybe do some pulls on 110%? I haven't done pulls in years...but I'm going to get one of my lifters to do pulls once a week. He isn't quite up to the same level where he can get away with not doing pulls yet.



I am a bit sceptical about deadlifts for olympic lifting.

First, if you deadlift, you may mess up your positions in the clean. If you're going to deadlift with clean positions, you are better of practicing cleans.

Second, if you deadlift heavy, you may increase strength, but not power, in which case you are better off practicing the cleans. :slight_smile:

To put it like this, I think your deadlift will correlate a lot with your clean, but not the other way around.


I don't think the use of heavy pulls can be discounted, especially for beginners. If your pull from the floor is weak, you're gonna get thrown out of position before you even start the 2nd pull. If the pull from the floor is tiresome, your 2nd pull is going to suffer. I agree they shouldn't be prioritized, especially as someone becomes more advanced, but it is necessary to build a base of strength in the initial stages of training.


So in your opinion, what is considered a weak pull?


haha hell I have no idea. I used to do deadlifts all the time before I ever started doing cleans, it's actually probably the lift I'm best at, so having a weak pull is not something I know much about lol. but I mean, it should become fairly obvious if you need to do some dedicated pulls. when pulling from the floor, if your back rounds over, your hips hike up, you get pulled forwards onto your toes, etc. basically if you just can't hold the proper positions anymore on the first pull, I'd say do some work with heavy pulls once or twice a week to get it stronger so it no longer hinders the lift.


That's what I'm wondering about, should I do heavy pulls (basically deadlifts with shrugs) or should I not? Deadlifting wreaks my lower back and heavy pulling makes my bottom rise too fast, basically I don't want to teach my body the wrong movement pattern.

But after comparing my pull:clean ratio to some lifters, e.g. Koing, I think for now it's sufficient enough....


I would have told you to just try it out BUT you said DL wrecks your lower back so don't do that if it's bad!

Do pulls on 105% or 110% of your best Clean.



You don't need to deadlift, but for crying out loud don't disregard the posterior chain!


That's what I do.

I sometimes do good morning or hyperextension.


my best clean is 51% of my deadlift max...

best clean = 205 lb
best dl = 405 lb

also honorable mention
best sumo dl = 395 lb
best snatch = 185 lb

i want to lift more weight period....what should i do in order to make the best progress at doing that....