Weak Posterior Chain solution?

Aizen 2011-07-14 20:54:44 UTC #1

Since I started back squatting, and now that I am front squatting, my forward lean has been ridiculous.

At the top of a back squat it was like I was good morning'ing the weight up

At the top of the front squat it feels as if I'm locking out a deadlift/ pulling with my back/ body is not upright.

I'm assuming the problem of this would be an overall weak posterior chain, and so my body is trying to move the weight using my back instead of the quads, glutes, and core.

Should I do a deadlift/back based program to solve this problem, considering i've had it for the year/ year and a half I've been training?

asooneyeonig 2011-07-14 22:44:59 UTC #2

box squats and good mornings instead of squats for a while should do the trick for ya.

Aizen 2011-07-15 03:53:44 UTC #3

All the usual talk of strengthening hamstrings, and I completely forgot about box squats.

Thanks a shit load, hahaha!

asooneyeonig 2011-07-15 14:43:09 UTC #4

i have the same kind of issue. i do some squat morning on the heavier squats, lol. a trainer friend that was on a seminar tour stopped by town and we worked out together. he has experience in powerlifting as his gym hosts 2 APA events a year and he competes at times.

he was telling me about glue ham raises so i gave some a try. couldnt do one without help. i can do a crap ton with goodmorning and stiff legged deads. and yes, crap ton is a scientifically measured amount.

he informed me that i probably have the strength, they are just lazy. and well, making them stronger will help keep your back straight. i was also doing mostly high bar narrow stance squats till recently. so moving to a low bar with side stance my back side is too weak in comparison. so i whipped up a poor mans glute ham device and got some bands for assistance to help work that back side and get it working harder. as well as the advice i threw up already.

im looking forward to what he calls squatters ass. looking like i have a kardashian ass, lol.

Aizen 2011-07-15 14:52:39 UTC #5

lol my ass is huge, no worries there. (no homo?)

Yeah, I've always had forward lean, and at the bottom of a front squat my elbows tap the top of my knees (elbows/arms are parallel to the ground) and my back etc. is positioned like the bottom of a back squat.

critietaeta 2011-07-15 16:16:09 UTC #6

Then youre doing front squats wrong. Front squats are often used to correct this issue (at least it has for me). Try front squats again and focus all your might on keeping your upper/mid back tight and elbows up

Cephalic_Carnage 2011-07-15 17:24:37 UTC #7

Yeah... Honestly may be a technique/setup issue rather than just a strength-imbalance...
Stance too narrow, knees not pushing out... Not arching properly... Sitting back too much as a raw squatter/trying to imitate a geared squat...

OP, post a video of yourself doing squats/front squats.

rrjc5488 2011-07-15 18:18:50 UTC #8

It could be a weak posterior chain, but it could also be a weak core.

Hammer the shit out of your abs.

http://deathtofitness.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-03-27T17%3A42%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=7

Scroll down until you see how two ab training articles

Aizen 2011-07-16 22:25:56 UTC #9

I will get a vid up a.s.a.p. Give me a few days and I'll have it up.

The lean is having with 135lbs. and I raw 1rm 315lbs. for back squat, so it's got to be some sort of technicality.

In the mean time I will see what I can do for form. I'll be back!

Chase44 2011-07-17 01:06:56 UTC #10

After reading some of the responses, I'm leaning towards this being more of a low back/form issue?
Like cephalic said, maybe you're not arching enough. It could be anything from foot placement to a flexibility issue. Reverse Hypers go well with the Glute Ham Raises. Working on low back strength will help keep that chest proud and low back tight.

It's always a good idea to hit do legs with stomach.
I personally like to stagger in sets of abdominal movements.
Abs are important for having good form and a strong squat.

KEO 2011-07-17 07:42:24 UTC #11

Goodmornings.

Forever.

phatphit 2011-07-17 21:46:30 UTC #12

GMs and pull thrus.

vjoe 2011-07-21 22:16:14 UTC #13

Glute ham raises and reverse hypers are good too.

StormTheBeach 2011-07-22 00:04:14 UTC #14

So, you basically have the same problem with front and back squats? I am willing to bet you have some stability/mobility pattern problems. This is usually a technique problem stemming from very shitty mobility. Do you do mobility work? Not stretching but mobility. For example, shitty thoracic mobility will make it hard to stabalize the muscles of your upper and middle back when you squat. This is because dynamically activating and isometrically contracting these muscles is key to keeping a strong posture when you squat. If you have zero mobility in this area, then what the hell can you contract/how far and hard can you contract? See what I am saying?

Stability usually gives out in more than one place. Pay attention next time you squat, I bet your knees drift like crazy over your feet when you come out of the hole because you compromise your ankle stability in order to compensate for your upper back turning into jell-o.

Varitek86 2011-07-22 00:30:56 UTC #15

StormTheBeach wrote:
So, you basically have the same problem with front and back squats? I am willing to bet you have some stability/mobility pattern problems. This is usually a technique problem stemming from very shitty mobility. Do you do mobility work? Not stretching but mobility. For example, shitty thoracic mobility will make it hard to stabalize the muscles of your upper and middle back when you squat. This is because dynamically activating and isometrically contracting these muscles is key to keeping a strong posture when you squat. If you have zero mobility in this area, then what the hell can you contract/how far and hard can you contract? See what I am saying?

Stability usually gives out in more than one place. Pay attention next time you squat, I bet your knees drift like crazy over your feet when you come out of the hole because you compromise your ankle stability in order to compensate for your upper back turning into jell-o.

Got any mobility work suggestions for that? I believe I may have a problem with this.

MileyV 2013-03-19 14:02:50 UTC #16

I had the exact same problem as you and while trying to find the answer I found a hundred different explanations for what was going wrong - weak posterior chain, long femurs, tight calves, not enough ankle mobility. This is what I did: stick a small weight plate under your heels when you squat. That completely sorted it out for me - I could squat perfectly after that. If that works for you buy some Olympic weightlifting ("Oly") shoes - they have an elevated heel.

MileyV 2013-03-19 14:08:14 UTC #17

I'm still focussing on my posterior chain by doing at least two PC assistance exercises after my squats because it's still highly likely that I've got a weak backside - most people do!

Fletch1986 2013-03-19 23:43:31 UTC #18

This and what STB was saying is what I'd look into first. Again, a video will make it much easier to tell what on earth is going wrong.

DSSG 2013-03-19 23:57:24 UTC #19

Look at what date this thread started... This thread should stay dead.

Fletch1986 2013-03-19 23:58:40 UTC #20

lol. I was thinking CC hadn't posted in PL for quite a while.