Weak Average People

If a person made average progress FOR YEARS could they ever achieve greatness? I was discussing this with someone before and I donâ??t think itâ??s possible. For example, Allen fisher an arm wrestler, I remember reading an article about him, saying he started out as a scrawny weak kid and became a world champion (it was supposed to be inspiring) what I found out was that only after a few months of training he beat a national champion (great genetics).

Another example takes a look at bodybuilders and how they looked at young ages, you are able to see how developed they are already. Some might point out a scrawny kid who became jacked but they fail to mention that it only took the scrawny kid very little training to become jacked (again great genetics)
Of course these guys have to work damn hard to achieve anything. Iâ??m not discrediting them, but show me a successful bodybuilder/power lifter who struggled with training with average weights/ average physique for years and years and then became a champion.

Bill kazmaier benched 300 lbs the very first time he tried to bench press. Mark Henry had a 900 lb deadlift in high school. Johnnie Jackson benched 225 in the 8th grade. The list goes on and on. It obviously takes a great genetic base as well as training for years to achieve a great physique or being able to put up enormous weights. Without this genetic base training is pointless.

I remember reading another article that was supposed to be inspiring. It was about an amateur bodybuilder who dreamed of one day going to the Olympia stage. He emailed a well known bodybuilding judge (forgot name) and showed pictures and asked him if he ever had a shot at being in the Olympia. The judge told him flat out, he didnâ??t have what it takes. The article goes on to say that he didnâ??t let the judgeâ??s opinion stop him from his goals. He trained and trained, and at the end of the article it says he did not make it to the Olympia but was able to win some amateur bodybuilding shows. The article finished off with some BS about â??follow your dreams and you can flyâ?? and all this nonsense. Wellâ?¦the article was not inspiring for me. It basically showed that the judge was right, he didnâ??t have what it takes to have a great physique.

More of a rant, but in short here is what Iâ??m asking. Show me a champion bodybuilder or power lifter who struggled with average training for years. you will find some average local champions or maybe even some decent, but not a wow physique.

Im not saying that those with average genetics should just give up on training because I believe that kids/teens who strive to become a mr. olympia will have better results than those kids/teens who only shoot for an average physique. But the truth is they will never reach the level they want because they canâ??t. (im not saying only mr.olympia just an example, show me a huge jacked guy is fine too)

Its like a mentally disabled kid with no legs saying he will be better then Michael Phelps one day at swimming . There is no nice way to say the truth.

tl;dr

Well, this is a very intriguing topic for me, and I actually am doing research on something related to this, except in the education system of America. My belief is that every human has varying abilities, therefore possessing a ceiling that cannot be pushed through at some point. In terms of physique enhancement, bodybuilding, power lifting, etc. everyone has a degree of abilitiy dictated by genetics, interpersonal, and intrapersonal skills, all of which contribute to success in any athletic event/endeavor/sport. Now this does not mean that one should train with this in mind, but IMO, people would be best suited to pursue what they truly have great abilities at doing, or at least should be encouraged to and supported. For example, if someone has the genetics and work ethic to be a champion level bodybuilder, they should be encouraged to do so by their peers, coaches, friends, etc and not discouraged/tried to be pushed into another direction. The same goes for anyone who has enhanced abilities in a certain area, whether or not it is popular or considered good by contemporary standards. Enough with that rant, slightly off topic.

Certain people simply have the genetic ceiling high enough to reach greatness, others do not. That being said, those who do not may possess the mental fortitude/intrapersonal ability to reach a high level within their genetic limits that someone who may have that ability does not attain due to their lack of determination/motivation, etc. I think that sort of answers your question.

Show me any “average guy” with average genes/work ethic/progress that made it to the top echelons in any professional sport anywhere.

You mean to tell me that all popular sports are dominated at their highest levels by men genetically predisposed to perform well at them!?

Do babies really come from a stork!???

Yes, not everyone can be the best in the world.

But anyone, can either go up or down. My idea of genetics has been, not there is a ceiling that once you reach you are done, but there are just certain traits that facilitate faster progress or better response to training or more work capacity etc. Traits that allow a person to go much further ultimately than a person who doesn’t have them. A person could always progress, but because time isn’t infinite, a person with inferior genetics will never reach the same level that a person with superior ones did… if that makes sense.

I have thought about this as well. I am almost certain I don’t have the abilities to really excel at bodybuilding. But its still something I really want to achieve. Its hard to write it off as a waste because of all the social/psychological/health benefits. Yes, at an advanced level it is a ‘sport’ and a competition (and maybe not that healthy), but for probably 90% of people who lift weights its got nothing to do with that and its just not that relevant what their max potential is.

I get the impression from the OP that he himself hasn’t made a tremendous amount of progress, and in looking for other average joes who have, he is feeling disheartened. So let me just ask this:

Can you (OP) say for a fact that you have gone 6 complete, consecutive months of eating 4-6 high protein weight-gaining meals every day without fail, lifting weights intensely 4-6 days a week without fail, and getting consistently stronger (adding 50-75lbs to major lifts in this time period)… without being inconsistent or slacking at all?

How about 3 months?

How about 1 month?

Answer that for yourself before you wallow about what your genetic (lack of) potential might be, and realize that many (no, not all) of the most successful men in bodybuilding would laugh at this query and say “only 6 months?”

I did this once for myself, and found that although I thought I was getting in basically every meal I needed and not really skipping any workouts, the marks on the calender did not lie: I only really had close to a 70% consistency rate with all of this. Complaining about my hand dealt in life when I was only doing 70% of the work seemed awfully silly after that.

[quote]hairygorillaguy wrote:

More of a rant, but in short here is what Iâ??m asking. Show me a champion bodybuilder or power lifter who struggled with average training for years. you will find some average local champions or maybe even some decent, but not a wow physique.

[/quote]

Well… everyone’s favorite Daryl Gee started out at 133 or so and spent a whopping 2 years getting up to a hyoooge 136, and now he’s, well. I’m pretty sure he’s an IFBB Pro bodybuilder.

[quote]thogue wrote:
Yes, not everyone can be the best in the world.

But anyone, can either go up or down. My idea of genetics has been, not there is a ceiling that once you reach you are done, but there are just certain traits that facilitate faster progress or better response to training or more work capacity etc. Traits that allow a person to go much further ultimately than a person who doesn’t have them. A person could always progress, but because time isn’t infinite, a person with inferior genetics will never reach the same level that a person with superior ones did… if that makes sense.

I have thought about this as well. I am almost certain I don’t have the abilities to really excel at bodybuilding. But its still something I really want to achieve. Its hard to write it off as a waste because of all the social/psychological/health benefits. Yes, at an advanced level it is a ‘sport’ and a competition (and maybe not that healthy), but for probably 90% of people who lift weights its got nothing to do with that and its just not that relevant what their max potential is.[/quote]

I agree with this, and you may be right, you don’t have the most superior genetics for bodybuilding, few of us do. However you most likely, and from reading your log, etc, you do have a high degree of determination and mental fortitude that can allow you to achieve a higher degree. We all have differing abilities, thats what I am saying. It doesn’t mean that if you aren’t the genetic elite, you will not succeed in bodybuilding. On the contrary, you may become bigger, stronger and better than a person of higher genetics due to enhanced abilities in other areas. Bringing them out and knowing what you are good at IMO will allow you to get to the highest point possible.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I get the impression from the OP that he himself hasn’t made a tremendous amount of progress, and in looking for other average joes who have, he is feeling disheartened. So let me just ask this:

Can you (OP) say for a fact that you have gone 6 complete, consecutive months of eating 4-6 high protein weight-gaining meals every day without fail, lifting weights intensely 4-6 days a week without fail, and getting consistently stronger (adding 50-75lbs to major lifts in this time period)… without being inconsistent or slacking at all?

How about 3 months?

How about 1 month?

Answer that for yourself before you wallow about what your genetic (lack of) potential might be, and realize that many (no, not all) of the most successful men in bodybuilding would laugh at this query and say “only 6 months?”

I did this once for myself, and found that although I thought I was getting in basically every meal I needed and not really skipping any workouts, the marks on the calender did not lie: I only really had close to a 70% consistency rate with all of this. Complaining about my hand dealt in life when I was only doing 70% of the work seemed awfully silly after that.[/quote]

lol nobody cares what you think bro

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I get the impression from the OP that he himself hasn’t made a tremendous amount of progress, and in looking for other average joes who have, he is feeling disheartened. So let me just ask this:

Can you (OP) say for a fact that you have gone 6 complete, consecutive months of eating 4-6 high protein weight-gaining meals every day without fail, lifting weights intensely 4-6 days a week without fail, and getting consistently stronger (adding 50-75lbs to major lifts in this time period)… without being inconsistent or slacking at all?

How about 3 months?

How about 1 month?

Answer that for yourself before you wallow about what your genetic (lack of) potential might be, and realize that many (no, not all) of the most successful men in bodybuilding would laugh at this query and say “only 6 months?”

I did this once for myself, and found that although I thought I was getting in basically every meal I needed and not really skipping any workouts, the marks on the calender did not lie: I only really had close to a 70% consistency rate with all of this. Complaining about my hand dealt in life when I was only doing 70% of the work seemed awfully silly after that.[/quote]

Man I would love 50-75 pounds on all my lifts in the next 6 months…the thought of that is so appealing…

Anyways

Here is my take on it. If you give whatever your passion is in life, in this case bodybuilding, your best effort, you do what it takes to become all the you can become, and eventually you will be good at it.

If you approach things with a positive attitude, strive for progress and stay consistent you will be a good bodybuilder. This doesn’t mean you will become Mr. Olympia, but put in 10 years behind the iron, eat and train like you are supposed, supplement like you are supposed, whether drug free or enhanced you will look the part of a bodybuilder.

Yes we all have our limits, some people can achieve more than others in particular activities, but unless you have a muscle wasting disease, give bodybuilding/powerlifting your all and you will sure as hell be successful at it.

One thing in common amongst all champions is drive. They are motivated, passionate and do what it takes to be the best, I don’t think that’s just some odd coincidence. You here the rare case of someone who is talented being a lazy person, but they may be great, but it’s the talented, hard working indivdual who becomes the best and I think hard work can definitely enable you to achieve more than someone who could be classified as “more talented” than yourself if they aren’t attacking the task at hand with the same intensity as you do.

And most importantly, if you have a dream go for it, don’t listen to the negative people who try and hold others back. I think there is some phrase that goes something like, if you shoot for the stars and wind up hitting the moon, you still made it to the moon so that’s a pretty big feat in itself and you shouldn’t get discouraged if ultimately you can’t fulfill all of your goals. It’s more about the journey than the end result and that’s all I really have to say. If things are meant to be they will be, if not just do what makes you happy and that’s all that matters in life.

Larry Bird

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
And most importantly, if you have a dream go for it, don’t listen to the negative people who try and hold others back. I think there is some phrase that goes something like, if you shoot for the stars and wind up hitting the moon, you still made it to the moon so that’s a pretty big feat in itself and you shouldn’t get discouraged if ultimately you can’t fulfill all of your goals. It’s more about the journey than the end result and that’s all I really have to say. If things are meant to be they will be, if not just do what makes you happy and that’s all that matters in life.[/quote]

Shoot for the moon, and if you miss, you’ll still end up among the stars.

Obviously, if you don’t have the genetics no amount of hard work will turn you into a champion.

Still, that’s no excuse not to make the most of the genetics you have. And I think very few people come close to reaching their genetic limit.

Bottom line: For 99% of the population, lackluster results stem from lack of commitment, not from bad genetics.

[quote]forlife wrote:
Bottom line: For 99% of the population, lackluster results stem from lack of commitment, not from bad genetics.[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:
Bottom line: For 99% of the population, lackluster results stem from lack of commitment, not from bad genetics.[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more.

S[/quote]

x 2 totally.

If you lack the commitment, no level of elite genetics will help you. IMO, an elite work ethic outweighs elite genetics.

You show me a way to measure one’s gene capability prior to lifting, and we can talk. I refuse to accept some form of genetically predisposed form of limitations. If the Desire is there, and the tremendous amount of work needed to fuel said desire is there, it can be achieved. In my eyes, its just another excuse. Just another reason to not push yourself.

I will agree that not everyone can make it to the Olympia stage, but not for the reason of genetic limitation; rather, because of a lack of mental fortitude. Getting to that level is so exhaustively taxing, mentally and physically. Its just not easy enough for people. It takes decades to get get to that level, decades of constant pushing, constant critiquing. Not everyone can be a Bodybuilder, because not just anyone can handle it.

A crude argument for why most people don’t make great progress is this. Suppose your diet and training are are correct 90% of the time (let’s not get into what exactly that means). Then 81% of the time you’re getting both right. In order to go from 81% to 90% you have to nail your diet and training 95% of the time. That means roughly two weeks out of every year you might mess up your meal plan or not train hard enough.

If you look at the professionals, what sets them apart is dedication. Of course they have genetic gifts, and certainly in this respect bodybuilding is less forgiving than other sports, because you can’t make up for poor insertions or muscle bellies with hard work. But like everyone has noted already, you cannot complain about genetics if you haven’t even put in the work to begin with.

[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:

[quote]hairygorillaguy wrote:

More of a rant, but in short here is what I�?�¢??m asking. Show me a champion bodybuilder or power lifter who struggled with average training for years. you will find some average local champions or maybe even some decent, but not a wow physique.

[/quote]

Well… everyone’s favorite Daryl Gee started out at 133 or so and spent a whopping 2 years getting up to a hyoooge 136, and now he’s, well. I’m pretty sure he’s an IFBB Pro bodybuilder. [/quote]

thats exactly what I was thinking, and to be honest i think talking about genetic limits is just an excuse for not trying hard enough.

Tits of GTFO, too much writing here!