T Nation

We Need To Worry

Billions, of mostly poor, disenfranchised people, packed into dense population areas, in easily to demarcate blast radii…

Centuries of an accepted caste system of “haves” and “have-nots” where the “haves” would just as soon not have as many “have-nots” around…

Religious, political and cultural hatreds that span literally centuries…

Enough Thermonuclear Firepower between the two to lay waste to a city the size of New Delhi or Bombay and contaminate the Indus, Ganges and their tributaries forever…

India and Pakistan…we have reason to worry…

Yes. Yes, we do. The S of Defense is going to India and Pakistan, where he will show them the computer models of the damage a nuclear exchange could cause. Hopefully this will bring some sanity back to the region, but don’t bet on it.

What is the history of this whole conflict? Up until recently I don’t recall hearing much about tensions between India and Pakistan. Is it just connected to the recent terrorist attacks or is it older than that? can someone fill me in. thanx

“If you go on with this nuclear arms race, all you are going to do is make the rubble bounce.” - Winston Churchill. “I don’t know how WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks & stones” - Albert Einstein

Maybe we should Nuke both of them. That way they won’t be able to Nuke each other.

There is no reason to worry about things you cannot control - for example, worrying about death is meaningless because everybody dies anyway. Therefore, sit back and enjoy the ride… while it lasts…

Mostly I worry that more of them will move here.


Arn’t we the only country to date, who actually performed a nuclear strike on another?

Not claiming to be an expert, but I’ll try to fill you in. When India was on the verge of gaining independence from Britain, there was some conflict between Hindus and Muslims. Even Englishmen would readily admit that much of the conflict was fanned by the Brits, as a continuation of their divide and conquer strategy. They were giving up control of the region, but wanted to leave it as weak as possible, but there were centuries of distrust between the Hindus and Muslims as well. Some Muslims felt unsafe and under-represented in a nation that was overwhelmingly Hindu, so some called for the declaration of an independent Muslim state. Hindus, in turn, felt that the Muslims were traitors who could not be trusted. During the tumultuous times at or around independence from Britain, there were horrible massacres perpetrated by both sides. Muslims were massacred while trying to flee to predominantly Muslim areas, and they killed Hindus in revenge. That went back and forth. All the while, Mahatma Gandhi was advocating everyone living in peace. He was assassinated by a radical Hindu (can you say Ytzak Rabin?) named Godse (forgot his first name). The Muslims declared an independent state called Pakistan, derived from the letters of the traditionally Muslim regions of India: Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir. Also, “pak” means pure in the Urdu(?) language. This conflict forged in blood of thousands killed in massacres on both sides still rages today. In actuality, there is little to distinguish India and Pakistan except for religion.

I did not know that.

I may be wrong but I don’t think we’ve ever actually dropped a nuke on anyone. The a-bomb is not the same as a nuclear missle. Could be wrong.

Nuke them both…right…and people wonder why there are many people who view many Americans as ignorant. It would be very convenient to view the situation as an isolated conflict affecting only India and Pakistan. Unfortunately, like almost every conflict, this is far from true. An all-out war between these two nations would invariably drag other nations into it, and further destabilize a region which is already very unstable. The U.S. has considerable security interests in this region with regards to Chinese and Russian expansionism, not to mention the economic opportunities for American business there. So after you nuke India and Pakistan, don’t bother asking why you’ve lost your job, the economy is in the toilet, and the country is on the verge of war. Globalization, ever heard of it?

Sending the secretary of defense into India and Pakistan isn’t going to do shit. These people know what kind of damage nuclear weapons can cause, thats why they have nuclear weapons. What is crutial to understand is that these people believe, with more conviction than Westerners, that there is something better after this life. Therefore, understanding that they are essentially fighting over whoever’s god is right, death on this earth is not a relevant factor. I’m not saying that a nuclear war is unavoidable in India and Pakistan, but American systems of negotiation are not the most effective when argueing against fundamental religious beliefs.

What do we have to worry about, more than India or Pakistan? A suitcase nuke in L.A., NYC or Washington.

In college I had an Indian roommate. A girlfriend of mine was friends with some Pakistani sisters. Once they came over with her to visit. The sisters walked in, my roommate saw them, stood up and went into his room for the next four hours. These were 19 year old kids and they HATED each other. I left with the girls later on and they bad mouthed India for two hours; I got home and he bad mouthed Pakistan for 3.

I fully support freedom of speech. However, when you speak try to give your brain a chance before making ridiculous comments.
What is your point, Defex about us being the only country to use nuclear weapons? Are you trying to imply that others won’t use them? Or are you one of those revisionists that take a stand from a comfortable distance?
I agree that this conflict could become a major flashpoint at any time. What we have here is nationalism coupled with religious fervor. As we have seen in the Middle East, that combination is like a smoldering coal that could ignite into a full-fledged forest fire at any point. The Secretary of Defense should brief both sides on the dangers of this conflict. I fear that what we have hear is a militaristic beaucracy that feeds upon itself. This conflict has gone on so long, that it has become ingrained. Neither side seems to be able to back down without losing face. I think a helpful starting point would be for Pakistan to condemn terrorism in any form and make a public display of cracking down on terrorists on their Eastern and Western borders. India could help defuse the situation by acknowledging that the terrorists are not under direct control of the Pakistanis. A few Indian observers in Pakistan would go a long way. I think these observers could help monitor the Pakistani crackdown that I suggested earlier.

Third eye, no wonder nobody ever pays any attention to canadians.

Ignorant Americans. Yeah no other country is ignorant. This is an attack on everyone by the way so anyone from India or Pakistan don’t get all ruffled. There are countries where women and children are raped freely without remorse or action of law. There are countries who fight over some useless piece of land for centuries. There are countries without a thread of free speach, freedom of religion, freedom of expression or how about the right for a woman to wear a little less clothing when it is Friggin 100 degrees out.

Look India and Pakistan should just split Kashmir and call it a day. And everyone needs to stop with the religious BULLSH*T. Seriously how can you people spend all this time on religious differences. As for Israel and Palestine. Hey if I remember correctly Israel won most of that land in a war. What next you want us to give back the entire USA to the Indians. I guess the russians should have Alaska as well. What about Japan didn’t China have control at one time or was it the reverse. Back and forth, back and forth everyone shut up and worry about your own country and one more thing we should never give money or help to any country that doesn’t appreciate it.

One last thing terrorists are the biggest friggin pussies ever on earth. Without weapons everyone of those hijackers would get their ass kicked by me. I could break every bone in their pathetic bodies. If they were trully smart men they could use the power of speech and the democratic process to make a change. OH THATS RIGHT THEY DON’T HAVE A DEMOCRACY AND THAT IS WHY THEIR COUNTRIES SUCK AND WHY THEY ARE SO PISSED OFF.

Hey guys, if a nuclear war breaks out, you have every reason to worry. Even though you may not be in India or Pakistan, the radiation could travel across the pacific and wind up here. With about 150 nukes going off, it’s possible.

Wow, some of you fuckers must have been born yesterday.

I think it is kinda clear that Scatman was joking, nuke them both so the won’t nuke each other? You took that seriously?

Yeah, I 've heard of globalization. Have you ever heard of sarcasm? My suggestion to stop a nuclear war between the two was to nuke both. Don’t you see the intended irony? Lighten up Francis!