T Nation

We Have Lost Afghanistan

With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

You can’t expect an Ivy League education to have given Obama the smarts to realize that al-Qaeda now sees that they have victory assured by a promised date, so long as they merely survive that long.

I mean, that would take a SUPER-DUPER-ULTRA Ivy League education to figure out.

More brains than one needs even for string theory.

(Or could it be that my theory was correct that Obama’s narrowness between the ears indicates not so much brain in there? Or as the final choice, rather than stupidity, is guaranteed victory for al-Qaeda the exact goal Obama wished to accomplish? Let us be charitable and pick the first of these options.)

[quote]John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing. [/quote]

We could plan to pull out 100 years from now, with a 100k strong surge for the duration, and they’d still ‘win.’

It’s been 9 years, and how many lives and dollars? How much longer do we need to be there? Until Islamic fundamentalism is extinct?

Odd how their asses were quite sorely beaten (that is to say, lots of them died, they lost control of the country, and none of them accomplished anything) with just somewhat over 100 US Special Forces on the ground and – of course – the United States Air Force bombing them all the way to their 72 virgins.

But that was being too mean, and we certainly can’t kill them like that now or ever again.

So in a year and six months he is hoping to have this completed? I hope to god so, my brother in law just got home from over there and is getting ready for discharge. Luckily it looks like he is being given the option of becoming a weekend warrior for two years and being left stateside as an officer.

God bless all of our men and women in uniform…

[quote]Sloth wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

We could plan to pull out 100 years from now, with a 100k strong surge for the duration, and they’d still ‘win.’

It’s been 9 years, and how many lives and dollars? How much longer do we need to be there? Until Islamic fundamentalism is extinct? [/quote]

Someone needs to put a bullet in the President of Iran before he starts a major religious war.

Yeah, I watched the speech tonight. I can understand a date for Iraq but my mouth sort of dropped when he had a date set for Afghanistan. That makes no fucking sense no matter which way you slice it. I remember one of the reasons he had for this was because setting a pull-out date gives it more urgency.

That sounds like a BS excuse, as if not having a pull-out date would make it any less urgent. Urgency has nothing to do with a pull out date, it has to do with how forcibly the commanders in-country are pursuing their strategies for winning.

I’m just glad he sent the troops already. Go Prez Obama! If the troops can wipe out those insurgent bastards and the people support the new government, we can win the war!!

[quote]John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing. [/quote]

How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?

[quote]orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?

[/quote]

Gone in there with a full force and wipe out Al Qaeda. Get as much as humanly possible then leave.

Its never going to be a “Real” country, it is tribe based. But take out a lot of the tribes and you won’t have to be worrying about anything for quite a while.

[quote]John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing. [/quote]

Don’t sweat the pull-out date. Obama is a liar. His timelines mean nothing. But it’s hardly true that even if we did pull out in his timeline that those that died did so for nothing. Anytime you drop a bad guy you’ve done the world a favor. Time to play name that book:

"Man is weak, greedy, craven, lustful, prey to every species of vice and depravity. He will lie, steal, cheat, murder, melt down the very statues of the gods and coin their gold as money for whores. This is man. This is his nature, as all the poets attest.

Fortunately God in his mercy has provided a counterpoise to our species’ innate depravity. That gift, my young friend, is war.

War, not peace, produces virtue. War, not peace, purges vice. War, and preparation for war, call forth all that is noble and honorable in a man. It unites him with his brothers and binds them in selfless love, eradicating in the crucible of necessity all which is base and ignoble. There in the holy mill of murder the meanest of men may seek and find that part of himself, concealed beneath the corrupt, which shines forth brilliant and virtuous, worthy of honor before the gods. Do not despise war, my young friend, nor delude yourself that mercy and compassion are virtues superior to andreia, to manly valor."

I don’t buy it completely, but there’s something to this.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

Don’t sweat the pull-out date. Obama is a liar. His timelines mean nothing. But it’s hardly true that even if we did pull out in his timeline that those that died did so for nothing. Anytime you drop a bad guy you’ve done the world a favor. Time to play name that book:

"Man is weak, greedy, craven, lustful, prey to every species of vice and depravity. He will lie, steal, cheat, murder, melt down the very statues of the gods and coin their gold as money for whores. This is man. This is his nature, as all the poets attest.

Fortunately God in his mercy has provided a counterpoise to our species’ innate depravity. That gift, my young friend, is war.

War, not peace, produces virtue. War, not peace, purges vice. War, and preparation for war, call forth all that is noble and honorable in a man. It unites him with his brothers and binds them in selfless love, eradicating in the crucible of necessity all which is base and ignoble. There in the holy mill of murder the meanest of men may seek and find that part of himself, concealed beneath the corrupt, which shines forth brilliant and virtuous, worthy of honor before the gods. Do not despise war, my young friend, nor delude yourself that mercy and compassion are virtues superior to andreia, to manly valor."

I don’t buy it completely, but there’s something to this.

mike[/quote]

Well maybe, but if it takes massive slaughter to bring out the best in us I say hooray for booze and whores.

[quote]John S. wrote:
orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?

Gone in there with a full force and wipe out Al Qaeda. Get as much as humanly possible then leave.

Its never going to be a “Real” country, it is tribe based. But take out a lot of the tribes and you won’t have to be worrying about anything for quite a while.[/quote]

That is interesting because every time the US bombs some country to wipe out “terrorists” they seem to spring up like mushrooms after a rainy day.

Maybe you produce more than you kill with this strategy?

How can you claim that you “lost” a country, when it wasn’t yours in the first place?

Can we get an article for the withdrawal date? I missed this.

OP for real, when you post things like this can, you post an article or something.
A sentence does not a thread make.

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
Can we get an article for the withdrawal date? I missed this.

OP for real, when you post things like this can, you post an article or something.
A sentence does not a thread make.[/quote]

You mean to tell us that you seriously didn’t know there was a speach last night??

Here www.ANYFUCKINGNEWSOUTLETSNAME.com that should help.

[quote]John S. wrote:
orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?

Gone in there with a full force and wipe out Al Qaeda. Get as much as humanly possible then leave.

Its never going to be a “Real” country, it is tribe based. But take out a lot of the tribes and you won’t have to be worrying about anything for quite a while.[/quote]

Oh, so you mean don’t just start pulling troops out to divert to some other country? Don’t walk away when you have bin Laden pinned in a cave, and allow him to walk away into Pakistan? Those kinds of things?

Sorry Henny, but Bush had that chance already and blew it, now Obama has to try and clean up the mess he left behind.

These kinds of hysteria threads are what keep this place so entertaining, watching the so called “conservatives” try to blame every bush fuck up imaginable on Obama. Go ahead, defend away.

[quote]tme wrote:
John S. wrote:
orion wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

How could you have possibly “won” Afghanistan?

[/quote]

Any slim chance for a “win” in Afghanistan (whatever that implies) went down the drain with the invasion of Iraq.

Strangely, surrendering godless communist (or crypto islamist) Obama wasn’t president then, but a certain George W. “mission accomplished” Bush.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
John S. wrote:
With the pull out date set, all Al Qaeda has to do is lay low and they will win.

All the soldiers that have died did so for nothing.

We could plan to pull out 100 years from now, with a 100k strong surge for the duration, and they’d still ‘win.’

It’s been 9 years, and how many lives and dollars? How much longer do we need to be there? Until Islamic fundamentalism is extinct? [/quote]

Rubble dont cause no trouble. Its the only way.

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
Can we get an article for the withdrawal date? I missed this.

OP for real, when you post things like this can, you post an article or something.
A sentence does not a thread make.[/quote]

Sort of sums up 3rd ID as well.