T Nation

Ways to Spike Insulin?


#1

I know Anaconda is coming out and the article sounds great, but insulin manipulation has been around for a while. On the cheap side, how about usual protein and amino acid shake with a glucose tablet?


#2

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#3

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I believe it takes around 80g of glucose or dextrose to create a true insulin spike.

BBB[/quote]

Is there enough in 1 serving of Surge to create a insulin spike? The label says 50 grams of carbs and 25g are sugar, so not sure what the makeup of those nutrients are…


#4

Also, if Anaconda is supposed to do stuff with insulin, I remember CT saying there are no carbs in Anaconda, I think. So is there something else to insulin manipulation besides spiking it?


#5

I think the insulin spike also depends on how quickly something is absorbed, doesn’t matter if it’s carbs (Vitargo, Dextrose, Sugar), or even proteins like (CH, WH, WI).

The slower something is absorbed, the lower the insulin spike, e.g. Carbs (Palatinose) or Proteins (WC, MI, MC)

LR


#6

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I believe it takes around 80g of glucose or dextrose to create a true insulin spike.

BBB[/quote]

Is that not dependent on your sensitivity? Surely if you’re on a Low Carb diet and you down 40g dextrose it’ll spike insulin?


#7

The video has very few words and therefore is not giving anything like a complete explanation.

Insulin is one of the key factors involved but is by no means sufficient or the whole stories. Much more is going on.

If all there were to it was getting an insulin spike, all anyone would need to do is take a good amount of sugar pre-workout.

But that is not all there is to it, or anything like.


#8

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The video has very few words and therefore is not giving anything like a complete explanation.

Insulin is one of the key factors involved but is by no means sufficient or the whole stories. Much more is going on.

If all there were to it was getting an insulin spike, all anyone would need to do is take a good amount of sugar pre-workout.

But that is not all there is to it, or anything like.[/quote]

Knew there must be something else. I’m REAL skeptical about this, but Biotest’s marketing is doing their job well in peaking my curiousity nonetheless. Can’t wait to hear what the hell is in this stuff.


#9

Well, I have a way of looking at things that differs from what is more typical. I put an unusual degree of attention into trying to figure what others will pick up from something where that may differ from what is literally said. Most people don’t do this: they just say what seems to them to get their point across as they would interpret the words.

So for example when writing a very short script that says very, very few words about what is going on, it can seem reasonable to a person to pick one thing that strikes them, out of many things that are important, and say just that. To them, Hey, I didn’t say that was the only thing! I didn’t say that alone would do it! And they would be surprised that people took it that way.

However, if having an extremely strong tendency to put oneself into the minds of likely readers, it is predictable that if naming one thing and not specifically saying it’s only a part of what is involved and by itself is not at all sufficient, people will pull from the video that that thing is the key.

Having done that is not marketing: actually it has counterproductive effect as people may decide to evaluate things based on reported insulin increase as their only deciding factor, in which case this protocol is nothing like the most cost-efficient way to do that one thing. What it is, is simply ordinary human behavior, if not having the peculiar bent of mind that I do that results in heavy emphasis in predicting how people will take things differently than literally stated.

That’s why I so often write things that most people don’t bother with and may seem odd such as, in my most recent post, after stating that I don’t know who a given person is, adding a parenthetical statement explaining that this is not a snide comment, that there are many people that I don’t know who they are, that it was only a literal statement. Because I know many will read a statement like that to mean, “So-and-so is a nobody” or “So-and-so isn’t the big deal they think they are” or something like that.

But that sort of approach, besides being eccentric, just isn’t suitable to writing a short script for a video.


#10

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#11

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#12

I realized that the insulin spike was not the only point of the program. It is just a piece of the new program. Loaded insulin spikes are not a new concept though, and glucose tablets are designed for diabetics to get an almost instant rush of blood sugar. I was wondering if these are safe, or if the bodybuilders I have known and read about that used this method are just willing to risk their future health for their short term muscle gains.


#13

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#14

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
London Runner wrote:
I think the insulin spike also depends on how quickly something is absorbed, doesn’t matter if it’s carbs (Vitargo, Dextrose, Sugar), or even proteins like (CH, WH, WI).

The slower something is absorbed, the lower the insulin spike, e.g. Carbs (Palatinose) or Proteins (WC, MI, MC)

LR

Ah but the word ‘spike’ implies a quick response with a sharp peak. So whilst you are perfectly correct that slower absorbtion = slower response, (but not lower, since that would be dependant on glycemic load, not glycemic index),and flatter curve, we were discussing the spike, lol.

BBB[/quote]

I tried! It is a complicated subject though…

LR


#15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I believe it takes around 80g of glucose or dextrose to create a true insulin spike.

BBB[/quote]

I’ve been drinking a pint of chocolate milk post workout. This is about 60 grams of carbs. So is this not enough carbs for a post workout drink?


#16

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#17

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

I’ve been drinking a pint of chocolate milk post workout. This is about 60 grams of carbs. So is this not enough carbs for a post workout drink?[/quote]

Spiking insulin is not optimal anymore post workout. You actually want to drink carbs before so that insulin is spiked during workout and nutrients can travel to the muscles quickly and easily. Check in CT’s thread for the new para workout protocol.


#18

Knowledge advances with time.

It used to be that the normal thing was to train on an empty stomach, or at most say have a meal-replacement or protein shake an hour or more before the workout, then do nothing in particular post-workout. Probably just go get a regular meal, or maybe have a regular MRP or protein shake.

Surge post-workout was a very substantial improvement over that.

Then after that, Surge both before and after was a very substantial improvement over that.

We never had a product or announced official protocol for it, but I and others were trying during-workout things.

At this point, we now know that when pre- and during-workout nutrition is what it should be, there’s no call for a big carb hit post-workout.


#19

But wouldn’t spiking insulin before your workout cause you to possibly crash in the middle of it? Why wouldn’t you want to spike your insulin afterword when you eat a lot? Your metabolism is very high after workouts so it will process the vitamins and nutrients out of the food more quickly. Then with an insulin spike, they’d be able to get to the cells.


#20

Read what CT and I have written about all this, and there you will have your answer. Or for that matter the instructions for use of Surge Workout Fuel would make all clear.