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Waylander - What's Your Back Training Like?

If this has been covered before, I apologize. But:

Last time (sort of a casual observer in this context) I saw your pics they showed a pretty developed guy. Now, however, your back seems to have reached a level of development that is, well, BB worthy.

The BB forum seems to be kinda slow these days, so if you’d share your thoughts on back training it might make things interesting, and I’m sure a lot of folks would appreciate that.

I’m not a stalker or anything, was just struck by the difference :wink:

I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like.

pretty sure it goes like this from what he said and the exercises he listed:

http://vodpod.com/watch/3157798-kai-greene-trains-back-with-dorian-yates-part-one

Theres a part two and three as well.

I started training my back like this a month ago (pic in avatar is 2 months old) and I now have stretch marks on my lats =)

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like. [/quote]

hahaha :slight_smile:

here ya go OP, I’ll just copy paste my last post on it. It’s pretty straight forward.

Thank ya sir, I’ll try not to derail this thread, but I really don’t lift all that heavy, I means my rows are 275-315, and DL I’ll do reps with 315-405. Now I can go much heavier obviously, but my form is compromised. I always aim for peak contraction and slow negative, I follow a lot of dorian yates principles in that regard. Pretty much working up to 1 top set of 6-10 reps and reaching failure on each exercise. Back day is always, machine pullover, then lat pulldown, BB rows, deadlift (I stop negative at 2 inches below knee and pull back up) and cable rows. Hope that helps.

EDIT: But yah OP, my training has pretty much changed completely since the last time pics were posted. Lots more emphasis on really hitting the target muscle, not so much concerned with weight that it compromises my form, and then voila! Lots of new muscle lol

Also 3 way split, so each muscle is hit every 3rd day. Pretty much everything Dorian does with a few things from DC and Phil Hernon thrown in.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like. [/quote]

hahaha :slight_smile:

here ya go OP, I’ll just copy paste my last post on it. It’s pretty straight forward.

Thank ya sir, I’ll try not to derail this thread, but I really don’t lift all that heavy, I means my rows are 275-315, and DL I’ll do reps with 315-405. Now I can go much heavier obviously, but my form is compromised. I always aim for peak contraction and slow negative, I follow a lot of dorian yates principles in that regard. Pretty much working up to 1 top set of 6-10 reps and reaching failure on each exercise. Back day is always, machine pullover, then lat pulldown, BB rows, deadlift (I stop negative at 2 inches below knee and pull back up) and cable rows. Hope that helps.

EDIT: But yah OP, my training has pretty much changed completely since the last time pics were posted. Lots more emphasis on really hitting the target muscle, not so much concerned with weight that it compromises my form, and then voila! Lots of new muscle lol

Also 3 way split, so each muscle is hit every 3rd day. Pretty much everything Dorian does with a few things from DC and Phil Hernon thrown in.[/quote]

WILL YOU GO TO PROM WITH ME?

Waylander, would you say there is something to be said for getting brutally strong with looser form on a movement like a barbell row (up into the 300-400lb range or so) and then dropping the weight down and tightening up your form? Or would you recommend using the tight form from the beginning and working your way up from there?

[quote]thephantom wrote:
Waylander, would you say there is something to be said for getting brutally strong with looser form on a movement like a barbell row (up into the 300-400lb range or so) and then dropping the weight down and tightening up your form? Or would you recommend using the tight form from the beginning and working your way up from there?[/quote]

I really don’t know man, I think both have their place. 90% of my lifting “career” I used loose form on all my lifts and I definitely still grew. However, at this point would I go back to that style? No.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]thephantom wrote:
Waylander, would you say there is something to be said for getting brutally strong with looser form on a movement like a barbell row (up into the 300-400lb range or so) and then dropping the weight down and tightening up your form? Or would you recommend using the tight form from the beginning and working your way up from there?[/quote]

I really don’t know man, I think both have their place. 90% of my lifting “career” I used loose form on all my lifts and I definitely still grew. However, at this point would I go back to that style? No.[/quote]

Good to know. Thanks for the info man.

Ok, thanks. Guess I should have looked more around more before posting :slight_smile:

Man I really wish my gym had a machine pullover that in that Kai/Dorian video. I have been doing decline cable pullovers, I don’t think they are quite the same though.

If you have a high enough cable and are short enough…try a kneeling, leaning into, straight arm pulldown.

Also, look on Scott Abel’s youtube channel for the cable lat pullout, your lats will thank you.

Alan

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]thephantom wrote:
Waylander, would you say there is something to be said for getting brutally strong with looser form on a movement like a barbell row (up into the 300-400lb range or so) and then dropping the weight down and tightening up your form? Or would you recommend using the tight form from the beginning and working your way up from there?[/quote]

I really don’t know man, I think both have their place. 90% of my lifting “career” I used loose form on all my lifts and I definitely still grew. However, at this point would I go back to that style? No.[/quote]

I’ll have to add that this is a matter of the top level of muscle mass you want in the long term. If you wanna compete at a high level, you need to build a big frame with big weights for some time; maybe the form won’t be as good. But 405 on the bench and the equivalents won’t be as necessary for a guy who just wants to get compliments from the chics.

This might work too for you guys wanting to mimic a pullover machine type movement.

[quote]xb-C wrote:
This might work too for you guys wanting to mimic a pullover machine type movement.

Noice

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like. [/quote]

hahaha :slight_smile:

here ya go OP, I’ll just copy paste my last post on it. It’s pretty straight forward.

Thank ya sir, I’ll try not to derail this thread, but I really don’t lift all that heavy, I means my rows are 275-315, and DL I’ll do reps with 315-405. Now I can go much heavier obviously, but my form is compromised. I always aim for peak contraction and slow negative, I follow a lot of dorian yates principles in that regard.

Pretty much working up to 1 top set of 6-10 reps and reaching failure on each exercise. Back day is always, machine pullover, then lat pulldown, BB rows, deadlift (I stop negative at 2 inches below knee and pull back up) and cable rows. Hope that helps.

EDIT: But yah OP, my training has pretty much changed completely since the last time pics were posted. Lots more emphasis on really hitting the target muscle, not so much concerned with weight that it compromises my form, and then voila! Lots of new muscle lol

Also 3 way split, so each muscle is hit every 3rd day. Pretty much everything Dorian does with a few things from DC and Phil Hernon thrown in.[/quote]

You’re lifting lighter but are you still focusing on trying to progress as often as possible as long as you keep good form, focus on contraction, etc…?

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like. [/quote]

hahaha :slight_smile:

here ya go OP, I’ll just copy paste my last post on it. It’s pretty straight forward.

Thank ya sir, I’ll try not to derail this thread, but I really don’t lift all that heavy, I means my rows are 275-315, and DL I’ll do reps with 315-405. Now I can go much heavier obviously, but my form is compromised. I always aim for peak contraction and slow negative, I follow a lot of dorian yates principles in that regard.

Pretty much working up to 1 top set of 6-10 reps and reaching failure on each exercise. Back day is always, machine pullover, then lat pulldown, BB rows, deadlift (I stop negative at 2 inches below knee and pull back up) and cable rows. Hope that helps.

EDIT: But yah OP, my training has pretty much changed completely since the last time pics were posted. Lots more emphasis on really hitting the target muscle, not so much concerned with weight that it compromises my form, and then voila! Lots of new muscle lol

Also 3 way split, so each muscle is hit every 3rd day. Pretty much everything Dorian does with a few things from DC and Phil Hernon thrown in.[/quote]

You’re lifting lighter but are you still focusing on trying to progress as often as possible as long as you keep good form, focus on contraction, etc…?
[/quote]

Yes, although I am very careful that the progression is actually a result of getting stronger not from altering form, so it goes a little slower.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Scott M wrote:
I am pretty sure he covered this within the last 3 hours, look back on his last handful of posts on what his routine is like. [/quote]

hahaha :slight_smile:

here ya go OP, I’ll just copy paste my last post on it. It’s pretty straight forward.

Thank ya sir, I’ll try not to derail this thread, but I really don’t lift all that heavy, I means my rows are 275-315, and DL I’ll do reps with 315-405. Now I can go much heavier obviously, but my form is compromised. I always aim for peak contraction and slow negative, I follow a lot of dorian yates principles in that regard.

Pretty much working up to 1 top set of 6-10 reps and reaching failure on each exercise. Back day is always, machine pullover, then lat pulldown, BB rows, deadlift (I stop negative at 2 inches below knee and pull back up) and cable rows. Hope that helps.

EDIT: But yah OP, my training has pretty much changed completely since the last time pics were posted. Lots more emphasis on really hitting the target muscle, not so much concerned with weight that it compromises my form, and then voila! Lots of new muscle lol

Also 3 way split, so each muscle is hit every 3rd day. Pretty much everything Dorian does with a few things from DC and Phil Hernon thrown in.[/quote]

You’re lifting lighter but are you still focusing on trying to progress as often as possible as long as you keep good form, focus on contraction, etc…?
[/quote]

Yes, although I am very careful that the progression is actually a result of getting stronger not from altering form, so it goes a little slower.[/quote]
I agree with your philosophy and think that this a very important concept that is diffilcult for poeple to not only understand but to actually use it in their everyday training. I still get caught up in trying to ever increase my reps and /or weight by loosening up my form, and then have to humble myself and drop the weight to start over.

Way, how much do you think the DC extreme stretching has helped your back development?

[quote]The other Rob wrote:
Way, how much do you think the DC extreme stretching has helped your back development?[/quote]

I don’t do DC stretches for anything other than my quads. When I’m done with back though, I’ll always stretch my lats out some by just grabbing a bar at chest level and pulling back to get that stretch going, but it’s nothing like what DC prescribes.

Only reason I do them for quads is it kinda clears out some of the blood/lactic acid after I’m done so I can walk up the stairs, haha.

Watching some of the vids posted in here made me really want to get in and add some pullover work today. I sit down at the machine to try and get it set up right and can’t move the fucker.

It takes me like 5 minutes before I realize that someone had put it together incorrectly and the pivoting part was caught behind a bumper. hahah. By then I felt like a moron so just went and did a bunch of heavy pulldowns. Haha. Maybe next time…