T Nation

Way to go Michigan!!!

Yesterday was an historic day for michigan, and a great day for all that believe in equal rights. Proposition 2 was passed, thereby placing a constitutional ban on affirmative action. This was a great day for, not just Michigan, but equal rights nation wide.

No longer will race and gender based hiring practices be allowed. No longer will individuals be given special dispensation for their skin color or gender. Equality across the board!

Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Yesterday was an historic day for michigan, and a great day for all that believe in equal rights. Proposition 2 was passed, thereby placing a constitutional ban on affirmative action. This was a great day for, not just Michigan, but equal rights nation wide.

No longer will race and gender based hiring practices be allowed. No longer will individuals be given special dispensation for their skin color or gender. Equality across the board!

Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.[/quote]

It is about time!

Can they do something about the ugly women problem in michigan now, well at least detroit. Ann Arbor seems ok, but holy crap, detroit. Maybe now that the dems control and like to give hand outs they can provide free lipo and plastic surgery.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Can they do something about the ugly women problem in michigan now, well at least detroit. Ann Arbor seems ok, but holy crap, detroit. Maybe now that the dems control and like to give hand outs they can provide free lipo and plastic surgery.[/quote]

You gotta get over to the west side of the state where we’re not politically fucked up and all the hotties are close to the beach.

Seriously, the right side of the state of Michigan is all kinds of fucked up. If Michigan needed an enema, you’d have to shove the hose in Detroit.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.[/quote]

My windshield is cracked. Time to throw my car away.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.

My windshield is cracked. Time to throw my car away.[/quote]

Care to explain?

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Yesterday was an historic day for michigan, and a great day for all that believe in equal rights. Proposition 2 was passed, thereby placing a constitutional ban on affirmative action. This was a great day for, not just Michigan, but equal rights nation wide.

No longer will race and gender based hiring practices be allowed. No longer will individuals be given special dispensation for their skin color or gender. Equality across the board!

Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.[/quote]

I disagree with you on a lot of political issues, but I got to join you and say WAY TO GO MICHIGAN!!!

Man, I thought you were going to say some shit about how the auto industry’s doing really good or something. Got my hopes up.

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Yesterday was an historic day for michigan, and a great day for all that believe in equal rights. Proposition 2 was passed, thereby placing a constitutional ban on affirmative action. This was a great day for, not just Michigan, but equal rights nation wide.

No longer will race and gender based hiring practices be allowed. No longer will individuals be given special dispensation for their skin color or gender. Equality across the board!

Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.

I disagree with you on a lot of political issues, but I got to join you and say WAY TO GO MICHIGAN!!![/quote]

I knew we could find some common ground :-]

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
Man, I thought you were going to say some shit about how the auto industry’s doing really good or something. Got my hopes up.[/quote]

No chance of that happening soon.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
Care to explain?
[/quote]

Hello? McFly?

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Good stuff. Maybe affirmative action will start taking a nosedive nationwide.

My windshield is cracked. Time to throw my car away.

Care to explain?

[/quote]

I believe he’s implying that affirmative action should be fixed of whatever flaws, not done away with.

To me, if the car is totaled, you throw it away. Affirmative action was totaled. Racism is wrong.

[quote]vroom wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Care to explain?

Hello? McFly?[/quote]

Well gee Vroom, thanks for stopping by and making the thread really cool

Neither of you however have been able to expound on this silly car/windshield theory. I assume that gender and race equality across the board make him really sad, and that’s just too bad.

Affirmative action sucks, and I’m proud to be from a state that recognizes that fact.

Some eminent-domain measures, to protect private property rights, passed also. Nine states passed such measures.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
vroom wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Care to explain?

Hello? McFly?

Well gee Vroom, thanks for stopping by and making the thread really cool

Neither of you however have been able to expound on this silly car/windshield theory. I assume that gender and race equality across the board make him really sad, and that’s just too bad.

Affirmative action sucks, and I’m proud to be from a state that recognizes that fact.[/quote]

He’s saying it should be fixed, and not thrown away, as throwing it away is just a way of not dealing with the problem.

I, for one, never liked the idea of affirmative action. However, in many states, racism and sexism are alive and well, and good people are being denied jobs because of their race or gender.

It’s a very delicate issue. I, for one, believe it begins with re-education. We need to begin to educate the views of the ignorant, so that the whole race/sex thing won’t come into question. As we don’t live in a utopia, and much less mandatory version of affirmative action would get my vote.

As in, no strict “quota” per se. But if a race/sex were to drop in employment for many, many years (as in almost all applicants are turned away), the government could step in and set a small quota, just to try to turn things around.

Obviously, this idea needs a bit of work - -;;

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

Affirmative action sucks, and I’m proud to be from a state that recognizes that fact.
[/quote]

I understand your current dissatisfaction with affrimative action; however, it needs to be revamped to address all economically disadvantaged persons, not just those of color or women.

Lt. Gov. Michael Steele from Maryland explained it quite well on Meet the Press that its original intentions was to help empower the economically disadvantaged but the current system has made it more about race/sex based quotas.

The problem I see is that it is a matter of economic empowerment. I don’t believe that one should be hired strictly becasue of their race. To me that is not affirmative action. However, how do we make it so that those that are economically disadvantaged have access to the tools necessary to mediate these problems?

I don’t beleive in free handouts–I don’t beleive that life is fair or that it is supposed to always be fair, necessarily. But it becomes hard for the poorer Americans to move upward economically when they can’t afford school, etc.

Then there are the racial/gender barriers. No sane boss will ever claim to be a racist/sexist but looking at corporate America it doesn’t look to me like the populations match up statistically very well.

For example, women statistically outnumber men by approximately 1-2% yet in the work force–my field, for example, they make up only 5%.

Two questions need to be answered: 1) is this because of an educational barrier or 2) becasue of bias in the hiring mechanisms, etc? If the answer is yes for question 1 I beleive it can and should be fixed.

If the answer to number 2 is yes I think it should be fixed by weeding out those individuals that hinder the system–which is a really tough undertaking. My initial response in the case of women in the workplace is that it has nothing to do with eduacation, discrimination or economic empowerment but is more likely due to various cultural issues–which I won’t get into.

The problem here is that sexism got lumped in with racism and the whole thing fell apart. Just because all people should be treated equal does not mean all discrimination is equal. Women wouldn’t necessarliy fall into the category of economically disadvantaged–this is more a cultural thing that we haven’t learned how to deal with.

The fact of the matter is that blacks, while being a racially statistical minority are indeed more likely to be victims of economic disenfranchisment. This does not mean that affirmative action should only include them; in certain areas they tend to skew economic data becasue of their large populations and realtively low incomes (think, Katrina) so we just assume that becasue they are black they must be poor, etc.

I don’t need to tell you this is not always the case. In the same area you would probably see just as many whites with the same population statistics.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
vroom wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Care to explain?

Hello? McFly?

Well gee Vroom, thanks for stopping by and making the thread really cool

Neither of you however have been able to expound on this silly car/windshield theory. I assume that gender and race equality across the board make him really sad, and that’s just too bad.

Affirmative action sucks, and I’m proud to be from a state that recognizes that fact.

He’s saying it should be fixed, and not thrown away, as throwing it away is just a way of not dealing with the problem.

I, for one, never liked the idea of affirmative action. However, in many states, racism and sexism are alive and well, and good people are being denied jobs because of their race or gender.

It’s a very delicate issue. I, for one, believe it begins with re-education. We need to begin to educate the views of the ignorant, so that the whole race/sex thing won’t come into question. As we don’t live in a utopia, and much less mandatory version of affirmative action would get my vote.

As in, no strict “quota” per se. But if a race/sex were to drop in employment for many, many years (as in almost all applicants are turned away), the government could step in and set a small quota, just to try to turn things around.

Obviously, this idea needs a bit of work - -;;
[/quote]

True. I think it should only be used to allow qualified minority applicants preferential treatment to make up for past and present racism. But if someone’s not qualified to be somewhere, they shouldn’t be because of race or sex or whatever.

For example, I’m at a top law school, and the minoriites as a population score 10 points lower on the LSAT. This should not be. It’s not good for anyone, and many struggle greatly once they’re here.

I would not have a problem with qualified minorities in the same GPA and LSAT range as everyone else being given preferential treatment because they are still at a real disadvantage on an indiviual level and as a group. But if not making concessions and only letting qualified applicants means only a small handful get in, so be it.