T Nation

Waterbury: Truth About PWO Nutrition?

Anyone else read Chad’s recent article?

So no PWO shake directly after training, only 30-60 mins later, and no carbs just protein. Then another 30-60mins after that?

The great Lee Haney waited at least 45 minutes after training to ingest anything.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
The great Lee Haney waited at least 45 minutes after training to ingest anything. [/quote]
I personally think waiting awhile is fine. IMO you need to relax and unwind somewhat before stuffing yourself with food. Digestion would be impaired if you are still amped up from training. Usually a short walk home, a shower and the time it takes to prep a meal is enough for me. Which works out to be about 30-45minutes. Im not frighted of carbs at this time though!

My head hurts from all the contradiction !!

Bottom line…live and learn.

hm - I’ve been having 40g protein shake + 1 banana (100-150g) immediately after workouts (5min. max) and then PWO meal of chicken & some oatmeal about 30-45min. after workouts…
Based on this article, I could’ve gained significantly more muscle faster if I had cut out that immediate PWO protein shake + fast carbs…??
Well, I’ll be damned if that’s true

It’s a good idea to read Ori’s books. He isn’t looking for big muscles. He’s about being lean only. Much of his books are based upon Roman soldier’s diets. They were small in statue.
Maximun Muscle, Minimum Fat and Warrior’s Diet are two of them. He’s not a scientist either. I think he’s ex-Israeli Military. Those guys are badass…

Above is an excerpt from Sean Hyson’s 50 best muscle tips.
Seems unlikely.


.

Yup, I was about to post this for a discussion soon as I got home. This completely defies T-Nation/John Berardi’s approach to Post-workout nutrition.

I see a problem with his theory though. He states in the interview:

“And that?s what happens after intense training: your body is forced to swiftly convert fatty acids into glucose, via gluconeogenesis, which are then used for glycogen replenishment in your muscle.”

It is still a question whether this is even possible in mammals, and research that shown the possibility of this has only been demonstrated in a ketogenic state.

Also, being insulin resistant after exercise isn’t that big of deal. Glucose transporters (mainly GLUT 4) are activated independently of insulin via muscular contractions. So, uptake of glucose into muscles cells from ingested carbohydrates should still happen significantly regardless if desensitivity to the insulin receptors occurs from hard training.

This is during exercise though correct? And this is also talking about the usage of glucose and not storage of glucose.

[quote]Fulford wrote:
Yup, I was about to post this for a discussion soon as I got home. This completely defies T-Nation/John Berardi’s approach to Post-workout nutrition. [/quote]

That’s Waterbury’s shtick. Convince people to do stupid shit just for the sake of being different and try to make proven time-tested methods seem wrong thru absurd pseudo-science.

Conventional rep schemes build a lot of muscle? Preposterous! Do 10x3 instead. Even tho that rep scheme is really only used for speed work and Oly lifts.

Want to isolate side delts for symmetry or rear delts for shoulder health? Fuck that! Just do the big lifts and things will work themselves out.

And now this. Why do people still pay attention to this man?

My only thing is, if you are ingesting food directly after workout, its not like BAM digested… it takes time. it may be 30 minutes before the food is broken down and “sent” off to muscles, etc. at least, that’s what i thought.

[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:

This is during exercise though correct? And this is also talking about the usage of glucose and not storage of glucose. [/quote]

Research I have read shows GLUT 4 can remain elevated up to 3 hours after exercise, and possibly longer. I am not sure what you are quite referring to with your second questions but regardless if it is used or stored it still has to be taken into the cell.

[quote]eightohfive wrote:
My only thing is, if you are ingesting food directly after workout, its not like BAM digested… it takes time. it may be 30 minutes before the food is broken down and “sent” off to muscles, etc. at least, that’s what i thought.[/quote]

Yes you are right. But I think he is referring to a liquid carb/protein drink which would digest significantly faster.

[quote]Anus Bleach wrote:

[quote]Fulford wrote:
Yup, I was about to post this for a discussion soon as I got home. This completely defies T-Nation/John Berardi’s approach to Post-workout nutrition. [/quote]

That’s Waterbury’s shtick. Convince people to do stupid shit just for the sake of being different and try to make proven time-tested methods seem wrong thru absurd pseudo-science.

Conventional rep schemes build a lot of muscle? Preposterous! Do 10x3 instead. Even tho that rep scheme is really only used for speed work and Oly lifts.

Want to isolate side delts for symmetry or rear delts for shoulder health? Fuck that! Just do the big lifts and things will work themselves out.

And now this. Why do people still pay attention to this man?[/quote]

No. You are trying too hard to be cool bud.

When he introduced 10x3 it was hailed by TC, Patterson and Shugart as the best thing they had done in a long time. And even though CT was, at the time on a traditional bodybuilding kick, he now does something very similar if you care to look.

He actually has mentioned that this is how he was actually training before he started the traditional bodybuilding time of his life. HP Mass and I, Bodybuilder incorporate many sets of 3 with a heavy weight and each rep explosive.
CT’s programming is very different from Waterbury but many principles are the same.
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Another thing; Who started working on rings first? And who is doing it now and proclaiming it is the best thing since sliced bread? Which it is by the way.

They are listening to him because the principles he is espousing work. Simple as that.They might not agree with his programming or some of his exercise choices but they agree more then disagree. Plus, for bodybuilders, Waterbury does advice isolation exercises, but perhaps not the ones you are familiar with.

Now think about this nutrition advice a bit before you spend time on a snarky comeback claiming I am a nuthugger. It makes a lot of sense and as Iron Dwarf indicated this was done by many old time bodybuilders including MR. Olympia Lee Haney. Dr. Squat always recommended you wait 20-40 minutes to let the hormones do their thing before you add food to the mix.

In the eighty’s and ninety’s I read plenty of interviews with champs who did not eat any carbs around their training sessions to burn more fat. Quite a few only ate carbs before going to bed, as it helped them with sleep and it made their muscles ‘fuller’.

It is nothing new and for many it will work very well.

Berardi commented on that article in his forum.
His reply was:

"The author is wrong about a lot of his physiological points.
But his practical strategies are fine for fat loss.

For example: the body IS NOT insulin resistant after exercise!
In fact MRI/MRS data suggest that the greatest period of glucose disposal in the muscle is immediately after exercise.
So much so that type II diabetics have normal glucose disposal for the brief post-exercise window.

Also: carb intake doesn’t shut down fat burning post-exercise.
Fat is preferentially burned for a short period after exercise even in the presence of high insulin and carbs.
For fat loss, the plan in the article could work… but only because it helps control calories and keep them lower… which leads to body fat losses."

PS: I deleted all the references to his forum and his coaching programs.

I see - was confused at first but this makes more sense now - in short, Ori’s stuff is not a recipe for max. muscle gains but rather a plan for leaning out while keeping muscle mass (while maybe gaining a little bit) and/or staying lean
Great! Since I’m in the clean bulk stage, I’ll keep my PWO carbs right after workout + 30-45mins. after…
When I go into the cut phase again, I may give this Warrir Diet a shot

^ Correct ^