Waterbury PT 7/27

Awesome.

CW, do you think for MS training, is it better to rotate less excercises more frequently or more excercises less frequently? I feel that I need to just simply, as youve mentioned multiple time, simply change grips and stances, do you think this is enough or will there come or should there be a point where one should change the excercise completely.

I think I just confused myself.

Amir

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ramo wrote:
Hey Chad,

Something I’ve been thinking more about lately is how a lot of high-level bodybuilders and strength-athletes use what many of us would consider sub-optimal programming. Now I’ve tended for awhile to believe that nutritional status was far more important than the specifc training program used when it comes to hypertrophy, one thing I have trouble wrapping my head around is how guys can do almost the same workouts week-to-week year round, continue to progress, and become highly successful bodybuilders.

The obvious answer seems like ‘great genetics!’ but is that really all there is to it? Plenty of guys with great genetics have observed that they need to change their programs very often, sometimes week to week. Guys that lift at Westside Barbell change very frequently, and I don’t think many of these guys got shortchanged genetically.

What I’m getting at is the possibility that some lifters might do better to keep their program largely the same year round (at least as far as structural gains are concerned,) whereas others need constant variety, and others some smaller measure of variety. One might be led to believe that there is some separate element, be it psychological or physiological, that causes this difference.

Have you observed this in your clients? Do you think it’s possible some lifters can get optimal results by keeping their program mostly the same?

Appreciate your time!

This is a very good post. It involves many facets that are well-beyond what I’m willing to write out, but I’ll address a few key points.

  1. Genetics - as you mentioned, genetics play a huge role. Is the issue of genetics merely enough for some elite bodybuilders? Yes. Some are so damn genetically predisposed to gaining muscle that it’s scary (eg, Casey Viator). I would consider genetics to be the most important factor. If something causes growth, why change it (providing the growth continues)?

  2. Exercise Selection - some lifters, especially O-lifters, began their lifting career with exercises that cause profound muscle growth. Since these same exercises (O-lifts) tend to cause the slowest adaptation, said exercises can be performed for months without stagnation. In other words, a lifter will quickly adapt to preacher curls, whereas snatches vary enough from rep-to-rep to cause a slightly different stimulus. The issue of total muscles involved is also important. The more muscles involved in a lift, the longer it takes to adapt.

Therefore, some lifters can perform nothing but snatches, squats, presses, and pulls without ever stagnating. In fact, such exercises are recommended for that purpose.

  1. Training Goal - if a lifter is primarily interested in elite levels of maximal strength, exercises should be rotated more often. The reason? It’s necessary for p-lifters to really push the intensity on certain key exercises. Once you push the intensity of a certain exercise for a few weeks, adaptations take place that causes quicker accumulation to the demand.

Once again, good question. [/quote]

[quote]Dr. Ryan wrote:
Chad,

I enjoy your articles and look forward to meeting you at Staley’s bootcamp in Oct.

Take care,

Ryan[/quote]

Thanks buddy! I also look forward to meeting you at the seminar. It should be a blast, and very informative.

Hey Chad, I am a relative newcomer to T-Nation. The main reason I am weight training is to be stronger at rock climbing, so I want to maximize my strength while minimalizing size. What should I do? Low total volume but high intensity? as in like 5 sets of 3 and such? Minimalizing hypertrophy doesn’t seem to be a big topic here.

How often should I work out a week with this goal in mind? Should I still eat massive ammounts?

[quote]Monster Wong wrote:
HI Chad, i want to put on mass, and you’ve written some of the best training program i’ve ever seen, can you number the program related to their effectiveness of gaining mass?
(1=most effective…6=least effective)

A) S.O.B.
B) AofW
C) QD
D) WM
E) Single’s Club
F) TBT

[/quote]

The answer depends on training age, and previous training routines. Any of the above programs will put on muscle. I really can’t rate them since some trainees will absolutely blow-up on one program, but not gain as much on another program that’s been incredible for other lifters. In other words, it’s very individualized. But if you’re wondering which program to choose, I suggest you choose the program that’s least like what you’ve been performing.

OK, so in an effort to not be so vague, I’ve gotta say that the WM and TBT have received huge amounts of hypertrophy praise. But I attribute this statement to the fact that the greatest number of readers have tried those programs. My TBT article is approaching 80K hits. Therefore, it overwhelms the feedback I’ve received on some of my older, less viewed, programs.

They’ll all work well, do them all!

Just wanted to say that I have been on your Art of Waterbury for the past week and a half, and I love it. It, along with Staley’s Snatch Part Duex, are my favorite programs as far as enjoyment in the gym.

the only problem is the 10x3 day takes FOREVER. But it is time well spent.

[quote]daven wrote:
Chad,

My olympic lifts (clean&jerk, snatch) have come to a stand still, due to shoulder issues. My left shoulder tends to dislocate when doing heavy overhead pressing, and thus my OH lifts are rather pathetic. Do you have any suggestions for exercises I could do to strengthen my shoulders so that OH lifts are not so dangerous?

I have tried CT’s shoulder overhaul, but the OH lifts killed me.

I know this has probably been answered in some form before, but I have never seen anything specific concerning it.

I am fine with horizontal pressing, however. My bench is about 275, and I have no issues with it.[/quote]

Questions like this are damn-near impossible to answer. The shoulder joint is so complex that your issue could be due to numerous factors. But, if you have a problem with OH work, you should avoid it. Once you’ve given your OH pressing a few months rest, you can slowly incorporate certain exercises. I like 75 degree incline DB presses with a semi-supinated hand position as an introduction.

In the meantime, make a diligent effort to develop your external rotators and shoulder flexibility.

Yes, it’s possible.

[quote]AMIRisSQUAT wrote:
If I bathe in Power Drive and soak my meals with Spike I think, and Im just hypothesizing mind you, I might just be able to knock out two aggressive MS workouts per week. Any opinions?

But honestly, Im very interested in this CNS and steroid issue so Ill type to Cy and let you know what he thinks if you happen to miss out on the action.

Thanks again!

Amir

Chad Waterbury wrote:
AMIRisSQUAT wrote:
CW! Do steroids have any effect on CNS recovery?

Amir

Good question.

Even though steroids are generally geared towards skeletal muscle recovery, I think the mental boost that many roids give (eg, Dianabol) would also help with CNS recovery. But Cy Willson is the best person to ask.

[/quote]

If I recall you and Staley were planning to start a conversation on progression patterns. Guess Staley isnt around yet.

Amir

Rotate fewer key exercises that have worked well for you, more often.

[quote]AMIRisSQUAT wrote:
Awesome.

CW, do you think for MS training, is it better to rotate less excercises more frequently or more excercises less frequently? I feel that I need to just simply, as youve mentioned multiple time, simply change grips and stances, do you think this is enough or will there come or should there be a point where one should change the excercise completely.

I think I just confused myself.

Amir

Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ramo wrote:
Hey Chad,

Something I’ve been thinking more about lately is how a lot of high-level bodybuilders and strength-athletes use what many of us would consider sub-optimal programming. Now I’ve tended for awhile to believe that nutritional status was far more important than the specifc training program used when it comes to hypertrophy, one thing I have trouble wrapping my head around is how guys can do almost the same workouts week-to-week year round, continue to progress, and become highly successful bodybuilders.

The obvious answer seems like ‘great genetics!’ but is that really all there is to it? Plenty of guys with great genetics have observed that they need to change their programs very often, sometimes week to week. Guys that lift at Westside Barbell change very frequently, and I don’t think many of these guys got shortchanged genetically.

What I’m getting at is the possibility that some lifters might do better to keep their program largely the same year round (at least as far as structural gains are concerned,) whereas others need constant variety, and others some smaller measure of variety. One might be led to believe that there is some separate element, be it psychological or physiological, that causes this difference.

Have you observed this in your clients? Do you think it’s possible some lifters can get optimal results by keeping their program mostly the same?

Appreciate your time!

This is a very good post. It involves many facets that are well-beyond what I’m willing to write out, but I’ll address a few key points.

  1. Genetics - as you mentioned, genetics play a huge role. Is the issue of genetics merely enough for some elite bodybuilders? Yes. Some are so damn genetically predisposed to gaining muscle that it’s scary (eg, Casey Viator). I would consider genetics to be the most important factor. If something causes growth, why change it (providing the growth continues)?

  2. Exercise Selection - some lifters, especially O-lifters, began their lifting career with exercises that cause profound muscle growth. Since these same exercises (O-lifts) tend to cause the slowest adaptation, said exercises can be performed for months without stagnation. In other words, a lifter will quickly adapt to preacher curls, whereas snatches vary enough from rep-to-rep to cause a slightly different stimulus. The issue of total muscles involved is also important. The more muscles involved in a lift, the longer it takes to adapt.

Therefore, some lifters can perform nothing but snatches, squats, presses, and pulls without ever stagnating. In fact, such exercises are recommended for that purpose.

  1. Training Goal - if a lifter is primarily interested in elite levels of maximal strength, exercises should be rotated more often. The reason? It’s necessary for p-lifters to really push the intensity on certain key exercises. Once you push the intensity of a certain exercise for a few weeks, adaptations take place that causes quicker accumulation to the demand.

Once again, good question.

[/quote]

[quote]Oddjob wrote:
Hey Chad, I am a relative newcomer to T-Nation. The main reason I am weight training is to be stronger at rock climbing, so I want to maximize my strength while minimalizing size. What should I do? Low total volume but high intensity? as in like 5 sets of 3 and such? Minimalizing hypertrophy doesn’t seem to be a big topic here.

How often should I work out a week with this goal in mind? Should I still eat massive ammounts?[/quote]

Keep your set/rep volume less than or equal to 15; use loads greater than 85% of 1RM; and train your core lifts 3x/week. Parameters such as 3x3, 4x2, 5x3, all work well. Don’t accentuate the negative and don’t work to failure.

Chad, What Are Your Thoughts On Off Day Training With Lesser Intensity To Promote Bloodflow To Targeted Muscles And/Or Groups. Would This In Any Way Hinder Overall Gains. If Not To What Extent Should These Exercises Be Done (Set/Rep Volume? Intensity?)

I Would Like To Thank You For Your Time Taken To Produce Such Great Articles. Below Are Results From Your Articles.

Late September '04 Wt: 132 Ht: 5’10"
Today: Wt: 182 Ht: 5’10"

Thanks CW!

[quote]jodgey wrote:
Just wanted to say that I have been on your Art of Waterbury for the past week and a half, and I love it. It, along with Staley’s Snatch Part Duex, are my favorite programs as far as enjoyment in the gym.

the only problem is the 10x3 day takes FOREVER. But it is time well spent.
[/quote]

Time well spent, indeed! Day 1 works well to increase your work capacity.

[quote]AMIRisSQUAT wrote:
If I recall you and Staley were planning to start a conversation on progression patterns. Guess Staley isnt around yet.

Amir[/quote]

Yeah, he’s probably reading through some material on the issue. He is, after all, new to this training thing.

Ha! All kidding aside, we’ll address the issue at some point in the near future. Don’t fret.

Chad,

Love your articles and had been training with similar formats for a long time. Wanted to ask your opinion concerning the following.

In your last article you recommend on day 1: 8x3 (I love training that way) on day 3: 3x12 and day 5: 4x6 but you recommend different exercises each training day and though I think I understand why I wanted to run by you what I have been doing:

I use the same format 8x3, 3-4x10-12 and 4-6x5-7 but I do the same exercises on Mo, Wed, Frid and then change them week 2 and week 3 and go back to them on week 4.

it has been working quite well but I sense a bit off overtraining coming on. Is that why you recommend the different exercises each training day?
Or is there another reason?

Hope my question makes sense.

Thanks for all the free info you provide. I have made great progress with your’s and Coach Thibaudeau’s programs.

Marqaos

hey Chad,
i just have a general question for you. recently, i started a new job from 4am-11am loading semi trucks with a pallet jack. pretty physical work. then in the afternoons, i’m a fulltime advertising student with a ton of homework. as far as your programs and suggestions go, which has the most “bang for your buck” for someone with limited time and n some days, energy. i can definitely do Spike and Power Drive if need be for some boost but i’d like your input.
thanks

Hey Mr.Waterbury! I sent you a PM regarding some questions. I also went to your site to find out your email, since you havent replied yet. I have sent you an email regarding a few questions, and was wondering if you would take a look…If that wouldn’t be too much trouble. Thanks for taking your time out to help me.

You may have answered this in the past, but when doing NB3, should one wait until he can do 5 sets of 5 to increase the weight?

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Chad,

Love your articles and had been training with similar formats for a long time. Wanted to ask your opinion concerning the following.

In your last article you recommend on day 1: 8x3 (I love training that way) on day 3: 3x12 and day 5: 4x6 but you recommend different exercises each training day and though I think I understand why I wanted to run by you what I have been doing:

I use the same format 8x3, 3-4x10-12 and 4-6x5-7 but I do the same exercises on Mo, Wed, Frid and then change them week 2 and week 3 and go back to them on week 4.

it has been working quite well but I sense a bit off overtraining coming on. Is that why you recommend the different exercises each training day?
Or is there another reason?

Hope my question makes sense.

Thanks for all the free info you provide. I have made great progress with your’s and Coach Thibaudeau’s programs.

Marqaos[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words.

As the saying goes, “There’s more than one way to skin a cat.” The method you mentioned works well, and it’s similar to what I often recommend during my TBT routine. I also like your method because it allows you to really develop a specific lift within a few weeks. Since it’s working, I suggest you keep doing it. I use a simimlar method often.

[quote]shady659 wrote:
hey Chad,
i just have a general question for you. recently, i started a new job from 4am-11am loading semi trucks with a pallet jack. pretty physical work. then in the afternoons, i’m a fulltime advertising student with a ton of homework. as far as your programs and suggestions go, which has the most “bang for your buck” for someone with limited time and n some days, energy. i can definitely do Spike and Power Drive if need be for some boost but i’d like your input.
thanks[/quote]

I recommend Triple Total Training.

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
You may have answered this in the past, but when doing NB3, should one wait until he can do 5 sets of 5 to increase the weight?[/quote]

Yes.