T Nation

Watch This: Iraq For Sale

http://iraqforsale.org/

or the youtube clip:

There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

[/quote]

Go on, Pete. Explain. And I believe that was when you or someone else was trying to say that the military gets all this super expensive gear and pays top dollar. I said it’s actually the exact opposite, that military contracts go to the lowest bidder. Then you came back with “oh, yeah? What about Haliburton?”. I said "Haliburton is not a military organization.

So, prove to me that Haliburton is a military organization.

By the way, you have yet to slap anyone in the face with anything but emotion, conspiracy, and nonsense.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

Go on, Pete. Explain. And I believe that was when you or someone else was trying to say that the military gets all this super expensive gear and pays top dollar. I said it’s actually the exact opposite, that military contracts go to the lowest bidder. Then you came back with “oh, yeah? What about Haliburton?”. I said "Haliburton is not a military organization.

So, prove to me that Haliburton is a military organization.

By the way, you have yet to slap anyone in the face with anything but emotion, conspiracy, and nonsense.

[/quote]

Watch the clip. I am done with you.

[quote]Ren wrote:
http://iraqforsale.org/

or the youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJlJudDtVE&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicstv.com%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D2618[/quote]

For what it’s worth, the documentary was financed thru small donations online: $267,892 from 3000 people in 10 days.

It’s from 2006 and is of excellent quality. The producer (Greenwald) was behind “steal this movie” and “Breaking Up”, starring Russell Crowe and Salma Hayek.

He requested interviews with the contractors for the Iraq documentary but they turned him down. The NYT described his work as “an obsessively researched expose”.

It looks like a movie worth checking out. I’m a bit worried about this Greenwald guy - isn’t he basically sponsored by MoveOn and the “Center for American Progress”?

What I’ve seen so far is pretty disconcerting, but then again this might end up being another “Bowliing for Columbine”.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

Go on, Pete. Explain. And I believe that was when you or someone else was trying to say that the military gets all this super expensive gear and pays top dollar. I said it’s actually the exact opposite, that military contracts go to the lowest bidder. Then you came back with “oh, yeah? What about Haliburton?”. I said "Haliburton is not a military organization.

So, prove to me that Haliburton is a military organization.

By the way, you have yet to slap anyone in the face with anything but emotion, conspiracy, and nonsense.

[/quote]

Just ignore Pete for a minute PGJ and tell me how you feel about KBR pissing away US dollars. Dollars that SHOULD have gone to making sure our troops were equipped well.

You know I am a critic of the war, mainly of the mismanagement of it. But that aside, this is one of the things that aggravates me the most. I have nothing but respect for the men and women of the armed forces who would risk their lives to do what our government asks of them.

But when you see stuff like in that clip, you can’t help but get pissed off. $100 to do a fucking bag of laundry? Burning a truck because you didn’t bother to bring a spare tire (then charging the government for a new one).

Running logistics orientation out of a swanky hotel on taxpayers money? You always read about the generals and soldiers saying they don’t have enough equipment, enough body armor, enough armor-plated humvees.

Supply problems aside, when you add everything up there is a hell of a lot of money that could have and should have gone to the armed forces.

I posted this because I know we have some current and former servicemen on these forums and I really wanted to hear their opinions on this.

[quote]Ren wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

Go on, Pete. Explain. And I believe that was when you or someone else was trying to say that the military gets all this super expensive gear and pays top dollar. I said it’s actually the exact opposite, that military contracts go to the lowest bidder. Then you came back with “oh, yeah? What about Haliburton?”. I said "Haliburton is not a military organization.

So, prove to me that Haliburton is a military organization.

By the way, you have yet to slap anyone in the face with anything but emotion, conspiracy, and nonsense.

Just ignore Pete for a minute PGJ and tell me how you feel about KBR pissing away US dollars. Dollars that SHOULD have gone to making sure our troops were equipped well.

You know I am a critic of the war, mainly of the mismanagement of it. But that aside, this is one of the things that aggravates me the most. I have nothing but respect for the men and women of the armed forces who would risk their lives to do what our government asks of them.

But when you see stuff like in that clip, you can’t help but get pissed off. $100 to do a fucking bag of laundry? Burning a truck because you didn’t bother to bring a spare tire (then charging the government for a new one).

Running logistics orientation out of a swanky hotel on taxpayers money? You always read about the generals and soldiers saying they don’t have enough equipment, enough body armor, enough armor-plated humvees.

Supply problems aside, when you add everything up there is a hell of a lot of money that could have and should have gone to the armed forces.

I posted this because I know we have some current and former servicemen on these forums and I really wanted to hear their opinions on this.[/quote]

I can’t get the video to work, but my response is in reference to how everyone seems to think the military gets all this high quality, super expensive gear. It doesn’t. Military contracts typically go to the lowest bidder. Can’t speak for civilian contracts. Normally, there is better equipment available in the civilian market.

I’m sure companies are profiting off of war contracts. It’s always been like that. That really doesn’t concern me. I get more pissed about paying lazy Americans welfare money to be human baby factories and chronic abusers of a system designed to help them, not reinforce their lazy attitudes for their entire lives.

Here is my personal expierience: Any waste, fraud, abuse is not tolerated in the military. Most of the shit you get is from the lowest bidder. Improvising and field craft usually make up for the lack of funding and in a time of war this shouldn’t be the case. If you ever deployed you would know this, accountability of men, weapons and equipment is a strict and detailed process.

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Ren wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
There is a large amount of right wing nut jobs in this website. No matter what kind of research you slap them in the face with, Bush is a saint and the war in Iraq is just and called for, and anyone that questions it is unpatriotic.

Hell, one of them told me Halliburton had nothing to do with the military, LOL.

Go on, Pete. Explain. And I believe that was when you or someone else was trying to say that the military gets all this super expensive gear and pays top dollar. I said it’s actually the exact opposite, that military contracts go to the lowest bidder. Then you came back with “oh, yeah? What about Haliburton?”. I said "Haliburton is not a military organization.

So, prove to me that Haliburton is a military organization.

By the way, you have yet to slap anyone in the face with anything but emotion, conspiracy, and nonsense.

Just ignore Pete for a minute PGJ and tell me how you feel about KBR pissing away US dollars. Dollars that SHOULD have gone to making sure our troops were equipped well.

You know I am a critic of the war, mainly of the mismanagement of it. But that aside, this is one of the things that aggravates me the most. I have nothing but respect for the men and women of the armed forces who would risk their lives to do what our government asks of them.

But when you see stuff like in that clip, you can’t help but get pissed off. $100 to do a fucking bag of laundry? Burning a truck because you didn’t bother to bring a spare tire (then charging the government for a new one).

Running logistics orientation out of a swanky hotel on taxpayers money? You always read about the generals and soldiers saying they don’t have enough equipment, enough body armor, enough armor-plated humvees.

Supply problems aside, when you add everything up there is a hell of a lot of money that could have and should have gone to the armed forces.

I posted this because I know we have some current and former servicemen on these forums and I really wanted to hear their opinions on this.

I can’t get the video to work, but my response is in reference to how everyone seems to think the military gets all this high quality, super expensive gear. It doesn’t. Military contracts typically go to the lowest bidder. Can’t speak for civilian contracts. Normally, there is better equipment available in the civilian market.

I’m sure companies are profiting off of war contracts. It’s always been like that. That really doesn’t concern me. I get more pissed about paying lazy Americans welfare money to be human baby factories and chronic abusers of a system designed to help them, not reinforce their lazy attitudes for their entire lives.
[/quote]

Amen brother!

As far as the film. Looks like bitter some bitter ex employees,all of whom I am guessing quit on their contracts before their time was up and didn’t get the money they wanted from Halliburton, pussies shouldn’t have quit if that’s the case, which from what I have seen it usually is.

As far as the military guys, its not too hard to find disgruntled ex military, especially in the pogue ranks(nothing againist the pogues that are patriotic and love their job and country). Kind of comical to hear some non combat arms types whining about pulling guard because civilians are doing the mechanic work and odd jobs they are trained for.

You wouldn’t hear a real soldier whine if they were doing the patrolling for them. Well, I take that back they probably would because real soldiers do whatever their country needs them too and take pride in it.

Jumper and PGJ,

I agree with you about how the military is forced to make due…no one knows this better than a US MARINE…can you say, “Army scraps?”; however, I also saw the other side of the coin with government contracts working in the intel community. I can’t get a fuctioning LBV or a new canteen while some “civy” turd gets paid 5x what I do to do the same exact job? Why did I even bother enlisting?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Jumper and PGJ,

I agree with you about how the military is forced to make due…no one knows this better than a US MARINE…can you say, “Army scraps?”; however, I also saw the other side of the coin with government contracts working in the intel community. I can’t get a fuctioning LBV or a new canteen while some “civy” turd gets paid 5x what I do to do the same exact job? Why did I even bother enlisting?[/quote]

The “practical”/cynical answer would seem to be that you enlist to get the experience to make big bucks as a contractor…
Of course some of us had other reasons such as patriotism, a sense of accomplishment, service and a way out of a dying community.

[quote]jumper wrote:
Here is my personal expierience: Any waste, fraud, abuse is not tolerated in the military. Most of the shit you get is from the lowest bidder. Improvising and field craft usually make up for the lack of funding and in a time of war this shouldn’t be the case. If you ever deployed you would know this, accountability of men, weapons and equipment is a strict and detailed process. [/quote]

It isn’t tolerated IN THE MILITARY is the point. This film details the ridiculous waste, fraud and abuse foisted on us by the civilian contractors fighting and working alongside our servicemen.

As a tax paying citizen and former Marine, I want an accounting of what my contribution is paying for and films such as this provide a needed perspective that allow us to develop an informed opinion.

As a private individual, I’d love to be making 5x what I do now for the same job, but as a citizen I have to consider whether or not this is justified and “right” when our servicemen are being injured and killed for much, much less.