Wars Of The World

Off Topic
21

[quote]Professor X wrote:
En Sabah Nur wrote:
And sadly the suicide rate is probably going to remain just that for people who’ve had these accidents: unacceptable. I don’t see how any amount of counseling can comfort someone who has lost limb(s) over bullshit, which is basically what this all boils down to.

Does anyone know how much (if any) these guys are compensated? If you get yourself blown to bits over the stars-and-stripes the least the government can do, and ourselves as tax payers, is make sure these guys are well taken care of.

I was quoted one stat recently that claimed the widows of dead soldiers receive $12,000. There is a HUGE problem here that seems to be ignored in Washington and in the homes of those claiming they want war so badly.[/quote]

I thought they upped the SGLI to 1/2 a million.

Mike

22

Welcome back, Prof. X. Thanks for making us think as usual. Or at least me. :slight_smile:

23

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Professor X wrote:
En Sabah Nur wrote:
And sadly the suicide rate is probably going to remain just that for people who’ve had these accidents: unacceptable. I don’t see how any amount of counseling can comfort someone who has lost limb(s) over bullshit, which is basically what this all boils down to.

Does anyone know how much (if any) these guys are compensated? If you get yourself blown to bits over the stars-and-stripes the least the government can do, and ourselves as tax payers, is make sure these guys are well taken care of.

I was quoted one stat recently that claimed the widows of dead soldiers receive $12,000. There is a HUGE problem here that seems to be ignored in Washington and in the homes of those claiming they want war so badly.

I thought they upped the SGLI to 1/2 a million.

Mike[/quote]

When I got out, our life insurance was set at $250,000 which everyone got unless they wanted to decrease it.

That was in Jan. of 2003.

24

Thanks for that Professor, a sobering reminder for today.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
conorh wrote:
combatmedic wrote:
What stood out most about this guy was his wife was there, smiling, helping eat and showing her support. The strength and devotion she showed amazed me. As horrible as it may sound, in that situation, I would think it better to lose my life than put my wife through that.

I think we all hope we never have to be in a situation like that but that’s a magnitude of humility we should all wish to cultivate. Truly amazing.

Most of these guys wouldn’t make it at all without their wives or parents. The suicide rate is unacceptable. For a guy who has lost both arms beneath the elbow, getting dressed in the morning would be a feat without any help at all. These are stories not shown on the nightly news. I suppose it just isn’t newsworthy enough.[/quote]

It is newsworthy.

Problem is, if this is shown on the news then the government would eventually lose it’s backing for the war. This kind of news would touch people in a way that would probably make them ponder their idea of “War against terrorism” and how helpful it is.

The government doesn’t want that. The lobbies don’t want that. The economy doesn’t need that. War is profitable.

Result: The news doesn’t show it. People don’t know. The war continues.

26

Thanks ProfX. Stories like these need to be told so that the young men and women whose lives are forever changed will be be in our minds, if only for a moment. We should all pray for those who fight the battles for us and for those who have died doing so.

DB

27

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Fred Reed had an article up on just this subject recently. The link is: Fred On Everything: Fred Recommends Best Hotels in Mexico

Then from the left column, choose article 318- Thoughts on War.

[/quote]

While the author makes some good points, I detest it when people oversimplify things by grouping an entire fighting force into an unfeeling, mechanistic killing machine in order to make a point. The author’s portrayal of the American “warrior” is tantamount to the way bodybuiders and powerlifters are portrayed as meatheaded, steroid-bloated morons.

As someone who served in the Army for nearly 16 years, I find it laughable (not in a funny way) the way American soldiers are portrayed by the media, Hollywood and the anti-war crowd. Granted, it is a hell of a lot better than during and after the Vietnam War, but articles like this one show that there is still a gross misunderstanding of the dynamism of soldiers. Often times, people see the unity of purpose that our servicemen and women possess as a lack of independent critical thinking skills. I can assure you that there is a diversity of opinions within the military on all issues, just as there is in the general population. Characterizing them differently is insulting, imo.

DB

28

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
Mr. Chen wrote:
Fred Reed had an article up on just this subject recently. The link is: Fred On Everything: Fred Recommends Best Hotels in Mexico

Then from the left column, choose article 318- Thoughts on War.

While the author makes some good points, I detest it when people oversimplify things by grouping an entire fighting force into an unfeeling, mechanistic killing machine in order to make a point. The author’s portrayal of the American “warrior” is tantamount to the way bodybuiders and powerlifters are portrayed as meatheaded, steroid-bloated morons.

As someone who served in the Army for nearly 16 years, I find it laughable (not in a funny way) the way American soldiers are portrayed by the media, Hollywood and the anti-war crowd. Granted, it is a hell of a lot better than during and after the Vietnam War, but articles like this one show that there is still a gross misunderstanding of the dynamism of soldiers. Often times, people see the unity of purpose that our servicemen and women possess as a lack of independent critical thinking skills. I can assure you that there is a diversity of opinions within the military on all issues, just as there is in the general population. Characterizing them differently is insulting, imo.

DB[/quote]

As an outsider who read the article, my impression was that it wasn’t intended to paint the entire armed services and all its people with the same brush, but rather an indictment of the mentality that currently guides the armed forces. More of a jab at Rumsfeld, certain generals, and some field commanders who purposely cultivate a given attitude.

We’re all social animals, and (perhaps especially in the armed forces) we work within cooperative structures that help define who we are. By changing the dynamics of those structures, we change the end results. If the view from the top isn’t changing, the generalized results down through the pyramid won’t change, either.

I also thought there was some admiration for the Warrior spirit as described; a black and white world view with an intense sense of loyalty isn’t the right attitude for all places and times – but in the right place at the right time, there’s nothing better.

Just my 2 cents.

29

“Dulce et decorum es, pro patria mori…”

Yeah, whatever…

Thanks for sharing ProfX.

KCB.

30

The French called the poor bastards this happened to in the 1st World War “the men without faces”. It was down to theatre costume designers then to repair the damage done with masks etc.

I’ve personal experience of minor maxilofacial reconstruction myself, albeit when I was very young. It is traumatic in unexpected ways and takes a long time to get over, not just physically, but emotionally too. I truly hope that all the coalition countries have the decency to give wounded servicemen ALL the help they can in their heroic struggles that lie ahead of them.

31

I think americans mistake how much a war fought amongst your own homes would affect you. Even of the people who are against the insurgents can see them as neighbours, of the same people, of the same religeon, looking at the same war. It’s what brings them together, even the ones who would happily give you osama.

They can’t understand bushes speeches expousing these american principles. But they can see their children getting hurt.

You can look at what a natural disaster did to the minds of new orleans residents. Could you imagine similar events, destruction causes by conflict over years?

32

These kinds of horrible stories are what happens when you fight, not to win, but to be politically correct. (Or, fight to look good for the imbedded newsmen – “Look, we’re being all nice and ‘touchy-feely’ with the locals!”) When you don’t obliterate your enemy totally and immediately, this allows them to submerge into a population and do these terrible things.

Either fight to win or don’t fight at all.

HH

33

[quote]Northcott wrote:
As an outsider who read the article, my impression was that it wasn’t intended to paint the entire armed services and all its people with the same brush, but rather an indictment of the mentality that currently guides the armed forces. More of a jab at Rumsfeld, certain generals, and some field commanders who purposely cultivate a given attitude.
[/quote]

Yes, this is also my understanding of the author’s intent.

34

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:
Northcott wrote:
As an outsider who read the article, my impression was that it wasn’t intended to paint the entire armed services and all its people with the same brush, but rather an indictment of the mentality that currently guides the armed forces. More of a jab at Rumsfeld, certain generals, and some field commanders who purposely cultivate a given attitude.

Yes, this is also my understanding of the author’s intent.[/quote]

Fair enough. Perhaps this just goes to point out my own prejudices.

DB

35

It’s good to have you back X. Safe and sound I’m hoping…

36

THis war is bull shit I refuse to fight unless another power like Nazis germany comes along that could actually invade our country and take us out. Sure, the Terroist are scum and deserve to die but, We have special units that were put together just for fighting terroism. We don’t need to call in the Marines to fight terroist units. I don’t know bout you all but, I was a Marine and overseas a lot of people hate our guts because we are being viewed as the nazis for our actions. Eventually we will crumble just like every other great nation. I am ready for the MAD MAX days too come along. EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! That is when all this weightlifting, running, and climbing will come in handy.

37

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
These kinds of horrible stories are what happens when you fight, not to win, but to be politically correct. (Or, fight to look good for the imbedded newsmen – “Look, we’re being all nice and ‘touchy-feely’ with the locals!”) When you don’t obliterate your enemy totally and immediately, this allows them to submerge into a population and do these terrible things.

Either fight to win or don’t fight at all.

HH[/quote]

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

38

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
These kinds of horrible stories are what happens when you fight, not to win, but to be politically correct. (Or, fight to look good for the imbedded newsmen – “Look, we’re being all nice and ‘touchy-feely’ with the locals!”) When you don’t obliterate your enemy totally and immediately, this allows them to submerge into a population and do these terrible things.

Either fight to win or don’t fight at all.

HH[/quote]

What the hell does political correctness have to do with this story? Why don’t you enlighten us with how you would handle the war, since you seem to know so much? Would your way prevent anymore stories such as these?

39

It certainly seems as if the age of massive armies, navies, and the like, is a goner. First, no one can really afford to have such things any longer. Secondly, the advantage is moving toward the defense – small clusters of individuals with very lethal weapons. Unfortunately, this means that the world will dissolve into the something like the pre-modern era, with little groups fighting with each other (electronic feudalism?)

This is also bad news for most people. The world economy is dependent on global money flows. If the global process can be interrupted by some petty chieftain with a grudge, the world economy slows down. Unless something happens to bring the advantage back to the offense (nanotech?), the world will be poorer 100 years from now.

HH

40

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
These kinds of horrible stories are what happens when you fight, not to win, but to be politically correct. (Or, fight to look good for the imbedded newsmen – “Look, we’re being all nice and ‘touchy-feely’ with the locals!”) When you don’t obliterate your enemy totally and immediately, this allows them to submerge into a population and do these terrible things.

Either fight to win or don’t fight at all.

HH

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]

And…? What if its not clear?

I hate idiots who make stupid statements like this, then leave.

Either explain clearly for us ‘mere mortals’ or STFU!

Sorry about the hijack, X.