The French rolled over for the Nazis because they didn’t want their cities damaged/destroyed, especially Paris.
England and Russia fought back, knowing that damage/destructions of their cities and loss of life is the price they had to pay to be free of Nazism.
These are poor comparisons to the situation in Haiti.
In Haiti it is not an outside force invading and causing these problems, it is internal.
Haiti has never been a viable country/society.
The Haitians are descended from slaves that rebelled against their French owners and kicked them out hundreds of years ago.
After that occured they could not simply pick up and go home because their real home was on the other side of an ocean.
It was and remains an incredibly poor country. They have not had the advantage of rich investors coming in and setting up trade and devolopment with the outside world.
They have been left on their own and they have fought each other for control for hundreds of years.
The US has landed troops a number of times to try to quell the killing.
It is a tragic situation. They should not have been brought there in the first place. It is no wonder they have not been able to put together a viable society.
[quote]The French rolled over for the Nazis because they didn’t want their cities damaged/destroyed, especially Paris.
England and Russia fought back, knowing that damage/destructions of their cities and loss of life is the price they had to pay to be free of Nazism.
[/quote]
Come on. Enough French bashing already! Read up on some history and look at the geography before spouting this hateful stuff.
[quote]vroom wrote:
The French rolled over for the Nazis because they didn’t want their cities damaged/destroyed, especially Paris.
England and Russia fought back, knowing that damage/destructions of their cities and loss of life is the price they had to pay to be free of Nazism.
Come on. Enough French bashing already! Read up on some history and look at the geography before spouting this hateful stuff.[/quote]
This is not hateful, this is history. The French government surrendered after a minimal fight. The French army was larger than the German, had more and better tanks and was handily defeated due to a number of factors. They set up a government friendly to the Nazis in Vichy.
When I look at a map I see a number of Eastern Euoprean countries that resisted the Nazis far more vigorously than the French.
Of course the French Resistance fought and died, but it pales in comparison to the efforts in Eastern Europe.
Look at the Warsaw uprising when the the Nazis were firmly in charge. There are no similar examples in France.
Hell, the French fought against the Allied liberation of North Africa for a few days until the Allies had the advantage. At that point they quit murdering the small, lightly armed Allied forces that went ashore first and surrendered.
France deserves its bad reputation.
I do not want to take anything away from the brave French that actually fought for liberation, but there were not nearly enough of them.
It was one where the Germans did not even bother to send supplies, as they would take from the citizens along the way – leaving them to die.
The plan was to depopulate the region to allow the expansion of Germany. It was a completely brutal affair. Faced with such complete annihilation, utter hatred between bitter enemies and the fact that the winter stalled the German advancement, it is no surprise that Russia had time to gather it’s defences and fight back.
Britain of course had the English Channel which protected it from a direct Blitzkrieg style assault.
The French unwisely believed that their fixed emplacements would hold the Germans at bay. Unfortunately, they were busy fighting a previous war while the Germans had advanced the art.
I would also suggest that the complete and utter depravity of the German regime was not entirely known during the beginning stages.
Basically, the Germans took over everything they attacked, not just the French, until geography and weather finally slowed them down. Being slowed down, other countries finally had the time to develop the resources necessary to successfully fight them off.
Finally, yes, the French could have fought longer. However, I will ask this, when did it become clear that the Germans were so depraved? When did it become clear that the rules were different than previous wars?
[quote]vroom wrote:
… However, I will ask this, when did it become clear that the Germans were so depraved? When did it become clear that the rules were different than previous wars?[/quote]
It was clear from their invasions in Eastern Europe they were going to play dirty. The massacres started right away.
When they invaded Poland the Russians came in from the other side and actually were worse than the Germans.
The French saved themselves from many of the problems faced in Eastern Europe because they did not resist for very long and ended up cooperating.
The US made a major mistake post war in treating France as if it were a major combatant and letting them participate in the occupation of Germany and giving them a seat on the UN security council.
They deserve it no more than Belguium or Luxembourg in my opinion. They did do the heavy lifting during the liberation of Europe and the did not fight very hard against the invasion.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
The French rolled over for the Nazis because they didn’t want their cities damaged/destroyed, especially Paris.
England and Russia fought back, knowing that damage/destructions of their cities and loss of life is the price they had to pay to be free of Nazism.
Come on. Enough French bashing already! Read up on some history and look at the geography before spouting this hateful stuff.
This is not hateful, this is history. The French government surrendered after a minimal fight. The French army was larger than the German, had more and better tanks and was handily defeated due to a number of factors. They set up a government friendly to the Nazis in Vichy.
When I look at a map I see a number of Eastern Euoprean countries that resisted the Nazis far more vigorously than the French.
Of course the French Resistance fought and died, but it pales in comparison to the efforts in Eastern Europe.
Look at the Warsaw uprising when the the Nazis were firmly in charge. There are no similar examples in France.
Hell, the French fought against the Allied liberation of North Africa for a few days until the Allies had the advantage. At that point they quit murdering the small, lightly armed Allied forces that went ashore first and surrendered.
France deserves its bad reputation.
I do not want to take anything away from the brave French that actually fought for liberation, but there were not nearly enough of them.[/quote]
I’m part FRENCH so I can say this… the French are PUSSIES! They deserve all the flack they get. What do they contribute to the World society except for their whine and cheese?
[quote]vroom wrote:
…
The war on the Russian front was a bit different.
It was one where the Germans did not even bother to send supplies, as they would take from the citizens along the way – leaving them to die.
The plan was to depopulate the region to allow the expansion of Germany. It was a completely brutal affair. Faced with such complete annihilation, utter hatred between bitter enemies and the fact that the winter stalled the German advancement, it is no surprise that Russia had time to gather it’s defences and fight back.
…[/quote]
This is a good point about Russia. Hitler would have happily killed everyone in it.
It applies partially to many of the Eastern European nations as well but not to the same degree.
[quote]vroom wrote:
I’m part FRENCH so I can say this… the French are PUSSIES! They deserve all the flack they get. What do they contribute to the World society except for their whine and cheese?
LOL.
You say this now. However, if Bush changed his tone, most of you “hating” the French would quickly adjust your thinking.[/quote]
Uhh…it has nothing to do with Bush. I’ve felt this way LONG before he ever took office.
No france hasn’t contributed anything to the world apart from the period known as “The Enlightenment”, countless renowned mathematicians, scientists, artists and philosophers… Oh, and their helping hand at the request of colonial Americans fighting for their independence and a naval blockade, which contributd to the colonial victory over the English…
Oh and their cuisine and wine is worth bragging about, not to mention many of their female units as well.
Anyways, yeah the french suck! suck, suck, suck, poophead, smelly buttface! etc.
[quote]vroom wrote:
I’m part FRENCH so I can say this… the French are PUSSIES! They deserve all the flack they get. What do they contribute to the World society except for their whine and cheese?
LOL.
You say this now. However, if Bush changed his tone, most of you “hating” the French would quickly adjust your thinking.[/quote]
I actually hate bush and france. If bush changed his tone, I would still hate him and france.
I am also sorry that I suggested people stand up for themselves. In fact, please don’t.
It was very very clear that Hitler was a mad-man. Let’s see, what warning signs did france have.
The sudentenland
The relamation of the Demilitarized zone between france and germant
The annexation of Austria
Poland.
Also, both the SS and the SA were glorified thugs, and Crystal Nacht was an attrocity as well. The french have no common sense, that must be the problem. They would gladly fight back, but there not sure where to point there weapons!
Incidentally, I heard Frances white flag factory burnt down yesterday, so they had to raise there terror warning level from Run to Hide. There are two tiers left, Surrender, and Collaborate With The Enemy
French partisans, the “resistance or underground” were real T-dudes, and T-ladies, I am not in anyway bashing them.
Barney, howabout you and Fred go smoke a few blunts and chill out or something.
It just seems that your life experience is a bit on the short side, leaving you a little shrill and idealistic.
If you are going to be a cop, it would be nice if you developed a small amount of empathy and compassion, so we don’t one day find you on the news in a video where you are beating the crap out of some perp just because you can.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Barney, howabout you and Fred go smoke a few blunts and chill out or something.
It just seems that your life experience is a bit on the short side, leaving you a little shrill and idealistic.
If you are going to be a cop, it would be nice if you developed a small amount of empathy and compassion, so we don’t one day find you on the news in a video where you are beating the crap out of some perp just because you can.[/quote]
I believe a good gauge of his common sense is growing on his upper lip…
hehehe
Look, I am sorry. Hati is a sad story. You are right, this image is disturbing. Hopefully sometime soon the U.N. will land troops there and protect these people from themselves.
Now- my point. If they get close enough to scalp him, then they are close enough to hit. If people are scalping each other, Then why lay down and take it. Fight back, with every ounce of muscle and energy you have got. America and Scotland and France and numerous other countries were freed by the blood of people, who were probably very afraid, but stood up to the wolf when he growled at the door.
The alamo? Kinda funny. 190 or so men did an awful lot of damage. They propably new damn well they was gonna die.
Remember Bataan? An awful lot of Americans and Filipinos died after surrendering.
My point is this. Yes, this is terrible, and something should be done about it. However- If bad men are coming to hurt you and your family, don’t kneel down, raise your hands in surrender and hope like hell they don’t hurt you.
Sometimes, if one person acts out against tyranny, other people find that they too have the courage. That is how good men stop bad men.
I am sure this seems like an idealistic viewpoint, but ask yourself this, If someone photographed your body, would you be scalped, or would you be gripping a chunk of 2x4, with several dumb bastards dead around you?
Look, we have no way of knowing what happened, what order it happened in and how much warning anybody had – or their state of health prior to such events.
Nobody is arguing with you, with respect to not taking it lying down, but your “fuck yeah, I’d fight man” is a bit weird considering we don’t know anything.
Have you heard that everybody is lying around waiting to die or something? Have you dealt with situations where someone is threatening to kill a family member, or your entire family, if you fight back? If you do make a stand, and they kill your entire village, instead of just you, is it worth it?
We really don’t have any idea what is going on. If you do, then instead of bitching at dead people, maybe you could share your knowledge with us.
Look, we have no way of knowing what happened, what order it happened in and how much warning anybody had – or their state of health prior to such events.
Nobody is arguing with you, with respect to not taking it lying down, but your “fuck yeah, I’d fight man” is a bit weird considering we don’t know anything.
Have you heard that everybody is lying around waiting to die or something? Have you dealt with situations where someone is threatening to kill a family member, or your entire family, if you fight back? If you do make a stand, and they kill your entire village, instead of just you, is it worth it?
We really don’t have any idea what is going on. If you do, then instead of bitching at dead people, maybe you could share your knowledge with us.[/quote]
I have no other knowledge except that which you provided. I am just reading into the picture too much. As far as the kill your village if you resist part, that is something that I don’t understand I suppose. If you fight back, then wouldn’t your village stand by you? I mean, if someone in the village is being threatened, then wouldn’t they have to deal with the village as a whole?
I guess that I am reading into the picture too much. To me, it seems like that getting scalped makes it sound like he didn’t resist his aggressors. I know that in different parts of Africa, people have a nasty habit of not doing anything, and taking the blows as they come. It just seems like also from the tone of your comments that people are being victimized without biting back. I am probably wrong.