[quote]Bodyguard wrote:
From a personal stand point I agree that stretching beforehand leads to weakness and injury.
I think it’s interesting that you feel that stretching pre-workout leads to injury, whereas I feel that stretching pre-workout avoids injury.
I think I’m in the minority of people who think stretching pre-workout is important. Shit, most of the training partners I’ve trained with in the past would always give me shit about taking like an extra 10-15 minutes just to get loose. It was always good for a laugh. If we were training together at 11:00…they knew they could roll in at 11:15 and I’d still probably not be ready…lol
You can read the articles Stretching For Strengthening and The Warm-Up Manifesto for my opinion on pre-workout stretching.
However, the one aspect I am noticing in this thread is the high number of repetitions (i.e. excessive volume) during general warm-up maneuvers. This is unnecessary and frankly counterproductive.
I just recently posted a new article on this
'Many coaches prescribe too many repetitions for dynamic stretching. For instance, if we go to Hartmann & Tunnemann’s excellent text titled Fitness and Strength Training for All Sports, the following is recommended for the repetition stretching method:
“The repetition (also known as the dynamic or ballistic) method involves stretching with repetitive pulls or bounces using small intervals, rather than just one pull. An athlete begins the first repetition over a relatively small range of joint motion, gradually increasing the amplitude range, reaching after 15-20 movements, the maximal range. The process is then repeated 3-4 times, using body weight or an external force (weight, partner, etc.)”
Now, the authors are quick to point out that stretching methods should be performed after each training session; however, dynamic stretching as part of a warm-up can be useful to decrease muscle damage and improve performance. It will definitely help rev up the nervous system in preparation for activity. Keep in mind, though, that it takes only 10-15 seconds of contractions to raise the body temperature by 1 degree Celsius and a proper warm-up should raise body temperature by 1-2 degrees Celsius (1.4-2.8 degrees Fahrenheit) to cause sweating; therefore, 5-10 reps per movement is all you really need.
Remember, the goal of a warm-up is performance not fatigue!’
By the way, no shameless plug here. I refuse to mention my Warm-Up to Strength Training DVD that can be purchased at www.StrengthWarmUp.com -
1)Joint mobility of some sort combined with gentle dynamic stretches - steve maxwell inspired stuff.
2) Movement prep - involving doing the movement your going to be doing.
3) workout.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
I’d try it, but I really don’t have time to spend 70-80 minutes just warming up before I deadlift, and I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat.
You’re entirely right; it shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes if you do it right. People are missing the boat with the five minutes of jogging/cycling and then doing lateral raises, etc. All it does is get the body temperature up; it doesn’t favorably influence dynamic ROM, activation patterns, or even get you fired up to lift (hence the reason Mike and I made this DVD…plus we knew it would fix up a lot of people’s injuries “by accident”).[/quote]
But getting your body temperature up is obviously still necessary, right?
I agree. It does take a lot time to train like this. Hell, tonights time @ the gym wasa good 2.5 hrs. From walking in the door to walking out the door. It does take a lot of dedication to train like this. But in time you will see results. Increased ROM, increased recovery, increased strength ( and I’m not gonna debate this ), and a great place to start for injury preventation and rehabilitation ( again I’m not gonna debate this ).
All things being equal there is a time and a place for everything. Maybe your GPP should focus on a ratio of 1:1 stretching time : workout time. And dedicate a good 3-4 months of your annual or calender year to this approach. That’s assuming you have a training plan and goal in mind. Then maybe when you get into your SPP focus on the primary muscles. And when in you CP even less and or more so.
If you don’t know what a GPP, SPP or CP is. Pick up any or better yet, all of coach Kings books.
The nice thing about individual prioritization is, what works for me might not work for you. etc…
Dynamic movements. All dynamics. I take the joints through their full ROM to get the blood flowing and lube the joints, without stretching any connective tissue. Always seemed very intuitive to me.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Eric Cressey wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
I’d try it, but I really don’t have time to spend 70-80 minutes just warming up before I deadlift, and I suspect a lot of people are in the same boat.
You’re entirely right; it shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes if you do it right. People are missing the boat with the five minutes of jogging/cycling and then doing lateral raises, etc. All it does is get the body temperature up; it doesn’t favorably influence dynamic ROM, activation patterns, or even get you fired up to lift (hence the reason Mike and I made this DVD…plus we knew it would fix up a lot of people’s injuries “by accident”).
But getting your body temperature up is obviously still necessary, right?[/quote]
Correct, but you might as well get it in a “more bang for your buck” context.
I don’t warm up.
I have never felt the need to. I have tried warming up before I bench a handful of time, and nothing seems to make any difference.
I think it is more of an individual thing. If you stretch for an hour before lifting, all the time, then you probably need those stretches to get going. If you do some light work with the barbell before hand, that is probably what you need to get going.
I am the most motivated when I know that every time I move the barbell I am building size and strength, I don’t need to get a light pump or be loose to get going.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
I don’t warm up.
I have never felt the need to. I have tried warming up before I bench a handful of time, and nothing seems to make any difference.
I think it is more of an individual thing. If you stretch for an hour before lifting, all the time, then you probably need those stretches to get going. If you do some light work with the barbell before hand, that is probably what you need to get going.
I am the most motivated when I know that every time I move the barbell I am building size and strength, I don’t need to get a light pump or be loose to get going.[/quote]
I dont warm up either or at least with cardio. I progressly add weight from a predetermined amount and hit out a rep. So if I’m working on chest that day, and my max is 350, I’ll put maybe 130 on the bar, and pound out 10 reps (as long as it’s not taxing on me) and then repeat. Add weight to maybe around 200, hit 3 reps. 250 at 1 rep. and 300 at 1 rep. By then, my muscles are sufficiently warmed up for that particular muscle group.
You’d have to repeat the same for any other groups. You want to warm up but leave enough fuel for the work out.
The key for starting is use an amount you feel like you could hit reps on forever.
I know there was an article on here that I’m following, so dont think I thought this up. But for the life of me I cant remember where and who wrote it.