T Nation

war tax

Just wondering what people think of former Labor Secretary Robert Reich’s suggestion that we institute a “war tax” on the wealthy, which presidents from Lincoln until Eisenhower have used. The wealthy finacially benefit the most from security at home and abroad.

I supported the war on the basis of Saddam’s material breach of resolutions for 12 years and giving Iraquis the opportunity of a better future than living under a gangster. I continue to support our efforts to destroy the Baathist regime in Iraq. However, all Americans should be on their guard against what Eisenhower called the “military-industrial complex” dragging us toward armed conflict.

How do people feel about this idea? And could it be a viable part of a Democratic presidential candidate’s platform? I’d like to hear any opinions…

funny that there are people that support this war but are too pussy to be there in person. yes, brian, i’m talking about you.

for those of you who don’t know… i have beef with brian. he insists i am a self-hating jew.

fucking idiot.

Taxes are good for us. Give me more…I love the lash!

The wealthy are already responsible for bearing a disproporationate amount of the tax burden in this country. If you look at any of the statistics (whether generated by the Democrats or the Republicans), this fact is pretty clear; although the Democratic stats make the issue seem a little less egregious. Nonetheless, if we need to pay for the war there are ways to do it that do not involve isolating one group in our society.

The wealthy benefit the most financially from security at home and abroad??? “Financially.” Come ON, guy. How about the fact that EVERYONE benefits by not having their asses blown to smithereens while they’re going to work in the morning. War tax. Brilliant. Just fucking brilliant.

I very rarely post on issues such as these as I don’t bother to keep up with the rapidly changing “facts” in political debates - however, I do have some very strong feelings on the issue of taxes.
To sum them up:
Give me my fucking money and get the fuck out of my face. I can manage my own retirement and investments too, thank you.

Any taxes that target one group of people or corporations more than another is fundamentally wrong regardless of the justification.

“Any taxes that target one group of people or corporations more than another is fundamentally wrong regardless of the justification.”

That’s funny. Why shouldn’t corporations contribute any? Imagine what kind of place the USA would be to live in if you forced your banks to cover the cost of everything 50/50 with the government! That’s how Japan got their industries off the ground 30 years ago & that’s how Canada paid for things like the Trans-Canada Highway, St Lawrence Seaway & WWII. That’s how things were done from 1939-1974 & I think that’s the reason the Trudeau governments ran up deficits. They stopped telling the banks to pay for things but they (correctly) wanted to keep their social programs & deal with poverty. Imagine what kind of situation the USA would be in if the wealthy & the corporations paid their fair share (which is ~10x what it is now I bet) & the banks pithced in to help…

Sheesh, I didn’t think people felt so strongly about taxes, or about the unfairness of taxes on the rich. Isn’t progressive taxation in itself then prejudice against a particular group, or based on a particular characteristic? Rich people tend to be more involved in international investment and international banks, which are more dependent on the issue of international stability.

Danh, grow up and let it go, and don’t say mean things like “fucking idiot”. That argument is over, and I never called you a self-hating Jew. I don’t even know whether you’re Jewish, just that you insist someone in your family is Jewish, even though we all replied that this information was irrelevant to your comments. I really didn’t start this thread to talk about your ethnicity.

“funny that there are people that support this war but are too pussy to be there in person. yes, brian, i’m talking about you.”

This is an excellent argument! Every time a person supports a war, he must join the army or be a hypocrite (and regardless of his present life circumstances, right?). Ingenius! By this logic, Danh will soon be keeping the peace between Muslims and Jews as he suggests American armed forces do as part of an international force. (And no I don’t want to get it into talking about Israel here, I’m just making the point that this argument about volunteerism is lame and off point.)

Monsiour, ring…ring…ring…the phone is for you, it’s Karl Marx, he wants his propaganda back.

Beep…CALL WAITING…Beep…Monsiour, Chairmen Mao wants you to call him, something about his little red book being missing, he thinks you’re reading from it again.

Knock…knock…knock, damn, it’s the front door, I’ll get it, “hey Monsiour, it’s the entire former USSR politburo, apparently you borrowed their party line?”

Listen up pinko, the regurgitation of the party line is getting a little thin around here. Put your socialistic dribble on the shelf for once. Get a hair cut, get a job, pay your taxes and quit hanging out in coffee shops with a Free Mumia T-shirt on and complaining about “the man.” You worry about your country and we’ll worry about ours. And take a shower; I can smell your hippie ass through my internet browser.

I think we should tax the Canadians and Mexicans for keeping them safe. Who the hell would go after them while we’re here?

Think about it. The Canadians are taxed so much we could slip another one in and they’d never notice…like an obese guy gaining 5 lb. The Mexicans have so much corruption if we could but siphon a wee bit we’d be rolling in the dough.

Who’s with me?!

childish? yeah… you calling me antisemitic instead of a self-hating jew, because you dont believe i’m part jewish… that’s childish. i repeat, fucking idiot.

last time i checked pussy meant two things, 1) the female organ, or 2) lacking male genitalia. talking shit without being able to back it up: i’ve seen it plenty of times, and i have no respect for people who do this.

Hypothetical pussy: i really think we should send our troops to Iraq. Saddam Hussein is an evil man. We must fight this war against terrorism.

Hypothetical bystander: so why don’t you do the reserves if you feel strongly about this?

Hypothetical pussy: oh, i can’t join. i can’t stand the sight of blood. i have a butt cyst. i can’t handle excessive heat. my mom would miss me. i have to pay off my student loans. i can’t miss this season’s pokemon episodes!

Hypothetical bystander: Damn boy! Are you on your period? It’s STANKIN’ PUSSY IN HERRE!

and yes, i would love to lead a peacekeeping force someday. where do i sign up? nice item to include on my future nobel peace prize application.


oh and your tax question. if you have some tax ideas take them up with congress. let’s see how far your bill goes.

Steel. let’s put up ticket booths at the borders and charge people disneyland admission rates for coming in. that should take care of a few problems.

“I think we should tax the Canadians and Mexicans for keeping them safe.”

More than 100 years ago MacDonald saw very plainly that the only threat to Canada came from the south. Canada-US relations haven’t changed a bit fundamentally in the last 200 years & there’s plenty of reason to believe that. The US would only fight off someone else because they figure we already belong to them. So no the USA doesn’t keep us ‘safe’ & never will.
“The Canadians don’t know what they’ve signed. In 20 years they’ll be sucked into the US economy.” - US trade rep Clayton Yeutters, 1988

“Once the free-trade agreement with the United States takes full effect, the next logical step will be to accept politically what has already happened economically - the integration of Canada into the United States.” - Marvin Cetron, American economic forecaster

“I can tell you that for the first time in the history of Canada, we have a man who is Prime Minister who has, without even being asked, volunteered Canada to be the 51st state in the United States …” - Ed Broadbent from Hansard RE: Brian Mulroney

So what’s the problem?

Listen up Comrade Quebec, the cold war is over and you lost. You can smugly post the latest anti-capitalism drivel from your sophomore poli-sci class professor, but the gig is up, and I’m calling you out.

15 yards, personal foul, repeat first down.

That’s right, the Berlin wall was torn down and it’s time someone tore down the socialistic propaganda you keep spewing on these forums. Sorry pinko, but the buck stops here. If there is one thing I can’t stand, it’s a stinking communist. I’ve let this go on for long enough. It’s time someone rolled up their sleeves and took out the trash. So gather around folks, we’re gonna have a good old fashion hippie bashing.

I hate to get into the nitty gritty with you, after all, maaaaaan, I’m sure you just want to talk about ideas, maaaaaaaan, like what life would be like if we weren’t slaves to the dollar, maaaaaaaaan, but if you want to talk economics, you have to talk numbers.

So, what did you want to propose? Banks and corporations should pay their fair share, 10 times their current taxes to contribute to society? Let’s just do a little arithmetic here my chai tea drinking socialist. Let’s say corporations pay taxes in the United States at 40% of their taxable income. You would like to increase this tax rate by ten times? Let’s see…using my fingers and toes…that comes out to income taxes payable of 4 times their taxable income!

Wow, comrade, even a co-op shopping hippie like you should see that idea not working. I think that patchouli smell must have some second hand effects. Can you imagine the interest rates banks would have to charge? Or the lay offs that corporations would face before eventually going out of business? But then again, for a communist like yourself, I’m sure you would enjoy seeing long lines of unemployment, it would remind you of the good old days in the motherland. Brrrrrr, lines.

Quick, search www.communistcomeback.edu to spin this one comrade, but it won’t work. You can regurgitate all the party line propaganda you want, hell quote me rage against the machine lyrics for all I care, but the fact is, my background is in business economics and your background is in conspiracy theory communist drivel.

Not on my watch pinko, not on my watch.

“I think we should tax the Canadians and Mexicans for keeping them safe”

“Think about it. The Canadians are taxed so much we could slip another one in and they’d never notice…like an obese guy gaining 5 lb.”

I’m sorry but the idea of extortion sounds pretty childish to me. We might not have the best defense in this country, but who’s going to attack Canada in the first place? Canada has very few enemies, so I’m betting none. Why else are there American backpackers toting CAnadian flags around Europe? As for taxes, yeah they might be high in some provinces, but our taxes also pay for public services such as healthcare. Doe you have government funded healthcare, and pay nothing for hospital visits? I don’t think so. Our taxes also go towards keeping tuition much lower in Canada than the US, amongst other things.

Danh, I would ask you to refrain from personal attacks that have nothing to do with the thread at hand. Please just cool down. You seem to demonstrate a temper issue that affects your judgment.

Based on what my friend has told me, who converted, that unless one takes that route, his mother has to be Jewish for him to be so. This is also the standard Israel uses for its right of return. A more racial standard (ex. 25% Jewish) has been used by other countries at other times. So I was not questioning whether you have any Jewish blood and you’re well aware that I don’t care.

I don’t think you’re going to get the Nobel Peace Prize, but you may if you keep proving how smart you are.

“Listen up Comrade Quebec, the cold war is over and you lost.”

Actually, if you look at the facts, the collapse of the Soviet Union was a massive, overwhelming victory for socialism. If you’re interested in the facts I’ll tell you what they are. Just as I said before, Japan forced their banks to support ther industries to get them off the ground. By the end of WWII, Canada had the 4th-largest shipping fleet, 4th-largest naval fleet, 4th-biggest economy in the world, 1000000 in the military (with no conscription btw) & unemployment @ 2%. After the Cold War ended the free-market fundamentalists from the IMF could go into the former Soviet republics & show the world how things should be done & they made things MUCH worse for the people living there. Russia’s production capacity is 1/2 of what it was 15 years ago, Ukraine’s production capacity is only 1/3 of what it was 15yrs ago, etc etc. If you look at the most dynamic part of the world economically, east Asia, pretty much all governments built their economies by doing the OPPOSITE of the the IMF says. Actually, the USA did the opposite of what the IMF says to build their economy also. China has averaged >10% growth for the last 30 years. I could go on & on. Sorry to burst your bubble. The market fundameltalists lost the Cold War bigtime. I can’t think of a bigger failure of anything in the last 50yrs.

Cool under fire, eh Vladimir? You must have learned that one in the KGB.

Sorry, but there is a big difference between the Japanese Kieritsu’s which are holding groups (Mitsui, Mitsubishi, Sumitomo, Fuji, Sanwa, Dai-ichi Kangyo, if you cared to know their names, although I believe there are actually only five now as there was recently a merger), partnerships based on equity and ownership, versus your state imposed tax of 4 times their taxable income or state imposed forced subsidizing of industry. The Kieritsu works because there is a vested interest in ownership and survival of corporations within the Kieritsu by each Kieritsu’s bank. Often the banks are members of the board. I’m surprised they didn?t teach you that in Stalingrad.

Further, there are two ways economists recommend a developing nation launch their economies. The first (the proper name escapes me right now) is one of comparative advantage, and is the success story of the Asian tigers. The second method, again the proper name is escaping me right now, involves heavy government tariffs and subsidies to build industry until it can compete at an international level.

Neither is particularly easy, and both involve considerable social change, something you conveniently leave out when discussing the collapse of your motherland. Until social values catch up with free market principles, production in the former Soviet Union and other developing nations will not match their potential output. You are sniffing incense if you think that socialism and state run industry can ever match the production of free enterprise. Production may have been temporarily higher under your iron fist comrade than it is now, but over the long term, free enterprise reigns supreme. Get out of your coffee shop and look around you.

I kept wondering why someone would hang around a weight lifting website and constantly spew the party line. Turns out we have ourselves a card carrying communist, I should have spotted you earlier, pinko.

Keep kickin’ ass Anderson