T Nation

War On Drugs commercials

Has anyone seen these disgusting commercials? You know, the ones that try to blame everything on drug users.
I saw one where they blame people who use drugs for the murdering of innocent families in Colubia. Of course they one-up themselves by trying to lay blame on September 11th on the drug users. What a bunch of garbage! If the government is so concerned about the lives of innocent people then why don’t they just end this stupid prohibition and take out the profit incentive. Then terrorists wouldn’t be able to profit from the activity of drug users and more innocent people wouldn’t get caught in the crossfire of the turf wars of these drug gangs. Makes you wonder

And doesn’t using oil fund a lot of terrorists as well? Maybe we should stop driving our cars.

It is horrible propaganda, with no evidence to their validity. Don’t worry, tis tactic will fail just like every other tactic used on the war on drugs. They should just end it. People who want to use drugs use them anyway and people who don’t don’t anyway. The ‘war on drugs’ has nothing to do with it except make drugs more expensive sometimes. I say legalize because I don’t think the government has the right to tell people what they can and cannot put inthier bodies.
As far as crime is concerned their is only correlational evidence that people who use drugs commit other crimes. There is not a single shred of evidence that using drugs causes crime, not one.

i hate those “truth” commercials that attack smoking. i’m in no way pro-smoking, but i say they attack something more worthwhile, like abortion.

I’d rather attack smoking than abortion. I’m not saying everyone should abort, but women should have the right to choose. It’s not like it’s the guys who have to carry the baby for NINE MONTHS!!!

P.S. If men got pregnant, there would be drive-thru abortion clinics.

Chrismcl…
I am sorry, attack something more worthwhile like abortion?? I don’t have any figures on this but I am certain more “people” die from smoking each year than from abortions. I don’t want to get into a whole argument about abortions, and I don’t agree with abortions, but I think smoking is a far larger problem than abortions.
Fuck it, lets start it up. OK would you rather have a child brought into a loveless home, brought up by a mother who is only 13 and with no father. If someone chooses to have an abortion there are basically two reasons.
1: They are scum and they don;t want to take responsability for their actions.
2: They made one mistake and they realize that there is no way they could bring up a child to have a decent life.
Which one of these situations do you think is good to bring a child up in?
Is the child going to grow up to be a productive member of society or is this child going to grow up with no opportunities, becoming disenfranchised, possibly turning to crime. These things may not happen but it is alot more likely than not that they will. And please don;t even make the argument “they might grow up to be the next noble peace prize winner”
groove

Actually Grooveless, I believe that abortions probably kill more humans, if you consider a fetus a human, than smoking. However, I do agree with your rationale for the continued legalization of abortion.

Until somebody can proove at what point a “fetus” becomes a person, I say it should be illegal. If you are wrong about a fetus being human that you just killed somebody. Damn, the social issues, I don’t giva a shit.

if we’re under the concept that a fetus is a human then your statement that smoking kills more people than abortion does is wrong. approximately 4,000 babies die daily in the US alone from abortion.

saying that “ohhh, its a woman’s decision, boohoo!” well my response to that is that it takes 2 to tango. you figure it out.

bringing up children in a bad home run by a 13 year old girl, thats bs, ever heard of adoption? saying that “the baby doesnt deserve to be brought up in a bad environment” is stupid. thats making a HUGE decision for somebody. also, the waiting lists for adoptions are massive.

the whole one stupid decision argument is fuckin gay, i expected more than that from you guys. if you make a bad decision, then you can’t just run from it, stick your head in the sand and wait for it to go away. maybe on the muscle & fiction message board, but not here, whoever said that (i’m just replying to different arguments i’ve heard thus far on this thread randomly, i’m not paying attention to names) is a disgrace to the t-nation. if you make a bad decision like fucking some random guy then you should be able to accept the repercussions of that, and if the repercussions of that is carrying a baby for 9 months and going through the pain of giving birth, then so be it. learn to live w/ your decisions.

anybody else got other points they wanna discuss? I’M ALL EARS!!

Chris, it is almost cute to read your response with cliches and using the term “gay” to negatively connotate a situation. Almost.
If you are not familiar with the adoption and foster care systems in this country I hope you will beleive me when I profess that they are less than adequate in funding and function. Babies do not leave the shelves as so many Cabage Patch Dolls. Foster care homes are commonly as poor in structure as the homes these children are taken from.
Furthermore, being a T-man also includes the ability to logically assess a situation from many different pieces of information. You suggest that the arguments suggested “thus far” are a disgrace to the T-nation. Last I checked, you were never the voice of T-nation members. I’ll check again in half an hour too, out of pure meticulousness.
Given that you appear adimant in your assertions, I do not expect you to really consider my sentiments. I would appreciate not being dragged into a non-existent consensus. Your closing statement provides some hope, be a lot more ear and a little less mouth and you shall be fine.

MBE: “Chilling in the name of. Since 1711.”

MBE, those are incidentals. Is he fetus human or not. What point does the fetus make the transition to being human. That is the question, not whether or not a kid deserves a good home or not. I always found those arguments to unrealated to the core issue.

P.S. I think this thread has been oficially hijacked.

adoption and foster care are two completely different things. a lady i know adopted a child recently, it wasn’t very hard. that same lady is attemting to become a foster parent to two little girls, w/ foster care, you need to have a license and an assesment of the foster parents’ home needs to be inspected.

also, mbe said, “You suggest that the arguments suggested “thus far” are a disgrace to the T-nation.” i never said “thus far” once in that whole post. i know this is completely unrelated, but if you’re gonna quote somebody, you should do it correctly. and besides, if i said “all arguments thus far are a disgrace to the t-nation.” i said that specific comment about how a girl should not have to be “penalized” for one stupid mistake is a disgrace to the t-nation. get your info straight.

pat, no this post has not been officially hijacked. to bring in the “at which point a baby is a baby” discussion is just going to cause more mass confusion, simply because that discussion is based on perceptions. however, one thing i’d like to point out is that before january 22, 1973, in the US, a baby was a baby at conception…just somethin’ to munch on for a while.

and if you’re not familiar w/ history and don’t have the drive to inquire more on your own, january 22, 1973 is the date that the supreme court ruled abortion legal in the US.

Pat, he listed it as a legitimate argument in this debate and so I chose to address it. I beleive that the major issues in the abortion debate stem from the multi-faceted forms of approaching the issue. Biological, moral, and ethical paradigms create opportunities to manipulate arguments in their favor. I consider an abortion a decision best left up to the individual carrying the pre-human fetus.
On the subject of hijacking, I do, surprisingly enough as it may seem, have personal grounds for choosing which threads deserve a hijacking. This one was not targeted.

MBE: “You can lock me up, but I’ll still free my willy. Since 1019.”

Chris, I did not mean “thus far” as a direct quote of your statement, rather to condense what you had stated about the previous posts. If you took it as such or if it was confusing I retract and digress. By citing the issues with both adoption and foster care in the US I was/am attepting to persuade you that the process is not as simple nor as (always) positive as a baby being born, put up for adoption, and placed with a proper family.
In terms of foster care, many of the children who are unwanted/unplanned yet born to an unfit parent(s) wind up in this situation. Yes, I beleive quality of life should be a factor in the decision.

quality of life is a factor because that is one of the factors of deciding whether or not somebody gets a foster parent license.

Ever met someone who genuinely wished they’d been aborted?

Gee, aren’t we all lucky Chris is here to ejakate us idiots?

Mookjong - When the anti-abortion protesters were on campus, it made me really want a t-shirt that said, “I wish I had been aborted.”

And yes, there are people that wish they’d been aborted, thus suicide. But I guess you don’t meet those people at a party, you know?

I think parents should have the right to abort a fetus up until it’s 18 years of age.