I actually thought @TurtleTantrum had deftly given a compliment to play on insecurities and get you guys to reveal the hypocrisy of your rants. Which is exactly what you did seen as you are admittedly roid heads yourselves.
But, alas, it seems as though he was just ass kissing and unwittingly did it 
.
Me yes. @BrickHead no. The difference is we are trying to help people learn from our mistakes, well I am at least. Some guys like you don’t listen which begs the question why did you come here in the first place? You do you boo.
See my posts above. My hypogonadism is idiopathic. I never used steroids prior to TRT and I’ve only used clinical doses (100 mg per week or 10 grams Androgel or Testim per day).
I didn’t mean to be condescending, and I apologize if I came across as such. I hope you’re careful with your body (no, I’m not being sarcastic).
The more time I spend on here, it seems like many people are just looking for some sort of odd approval from internet people to take steroids, in particular under the guise of TRT. They aren’t actually wanting advice.
To clarify for me, it is all genetics when everything else is equal. The difference is usually whether or not the person recognizes the gift they’ve been given and what they do to convert the genetic potential into something great. For sure, putting in work will give improvement regardless of what it is. I think we’re saying basically the same thing.
#truth
Reminds me of when my kids come for advice. They ask for it but then completely ignore the years of experience and wisdom given. So if thats the case, as an adult, don’t ask. Just do what you want to do and reap the consequences.
There are plenty of people on here that self administer “TRT” but they have experience, know how to read labs, and usually were on a medical supervised protocol prior to doing it themselves for the cost savings. Thats a different story. Similarly, if you were a stage competitor and/or seasoned body builder and wanted to do a mild to aggressive cycle there would be different advice given. But for newbs, its a very bad idea to just start injecting Testosterone at a random dose. Just read the forums for to see all the complications men UNDER SUPERVISION have.
I thought my kids were the only ones who did this lol. I guess people have to just learn for themselves sometimes. I know I’ve fallen victim to this. The ego is such a bitch to overcome sometimes.
I had no idea until I started researching T how wildly different people respond. My T started to suck about 9 years ago but I didn’t start TRT until about 2 years ago and have now graduated to TOT/cruising.
The wild responses by different people were what caused me to hesitate then I finally realized the risk was worth taking because I was starting to feel so crappy from both low T and low E.
I’ve been one of the lucky ones who seem to respond well with very minimal side effects, at least for now.
On a forum like this, it can be easy to form a bias that TRT is this miracle drug that will have you jacked in 6 months. People see the avatars of a few members on TRT, see how jacked they are and conclude the body is because of TRT. What is missed is there is often a decade or more of natural training before TRT. IIRC, both @blshaw and @BrickHead have worked with coaches, which almost always involves training harder than most people. The diets have been better than most.
It is true that for men with low testosterone levels, that TRT almost always helps their physiques. But, what outsiders don’t understand is roughly how much it helps. It took me multiple years to drop my body fat down. I had to do lots of cardio and clean up my diet. My physique looked roughly the same for a year on TRT, because I thought I’d just kinda recomp. Didn’t happen. My bench went from a paused 330, to 355 lbs, but I really didn’t look much better (it was a slight improvement). I had to realize that Test wasn’t going to make me jacked automatically, for me to actually put in the work and get jacked.
I wish the guys who came on here sniffing around for advice/suggestions would just be forthcoming with what their intentions were.
You thinking about a cycle? Ok, but just know that all of us on here WILL be adamant that you have a solid diet and training regimen already in place, that you research, research, research the drugs you are considering and understand [at least on a basic level] their mechanisms of action, their supposed benefits, their potential negative effects, how they impact the body overall, etc. Understand that we will flat out tell you that unless you have been training HARD for 5-7 years [obviously that time frame is very loose and subjective, but I feel that this figure should ideally be the minimum], you haven’t yet even maxed out your natural muscle building potential and you should instead focus on a better diet, workout routine, supplement regimen, etc. We will also ask you what your goals are from using AAS? Are they reasonable, achievable, and will AAS in fact help you to attain them?
We’ll want to know if you’ve really thought out your cycle, for YOU, and how long, and at what dosages, you plan on running various AAS. This part we can be a bit more forgiving with seeing as how we understand that you haven’t done a cycle before and will most likely need some guidance/advice. But don’t come to us and lay down an obviously poorly thought out, dumbass looking cycle. All that does is immediately tell us experienced guys that you haven’t researched shit, you don’t know what the fuck you are doing, and that you are just another idiot that wants to “take some gear and get jacked, bro!”. That’s the same person who will eat like garbage while on, train without a strict plan or any real intensity/blood and guts, and who’ll finish their cycle up some pounds, sure, but then will lose all of it within a few weeks due to a lack of pre/during/post cycle planning.
The exact same thing goes for guys coming on here asking about TRUE TRT. It’s the same principal with training hard, eating well, doing research into your TRT options, getting initial bloodwork done and sharing it with us so that we can also advise what your options are. When someone comes on here educated, humble, and obviously having done their homework, people here are immediately more than willing to give constructive advice/criticism and assist that person in achieving their desired goals/objectives. I know that I am MUCH more willing to help someone who has properly educated themselves the best they can and approaches AAS/TRT with a mature, intelligent, and humble mindset.
Just don’t come on here and immediately act like a goddam idiot, wasting peoples’ time. Don’t be lazy and expect us to hold your hand on every little thing. We’re all adults here.
That wasn’t directed at anyone other than new people coming on here inquiring about either taking an AAS cycle or thinking about TRT, yet immediately revealing to all of us that they have no fucking idea about all of the various hormones they are wishing to take and what they even do. Then of course NOT following the advice they are lucky enough to receive and doing everything THEIR own way. Naturally then blaming others for their failures or worse yet, being argumentative.
Again, I wish this post could be stickied as I think it would be helpful. Eh, probably wishful thinking…happens more and more the older I get.
I think we ironically worked with the same coach. You worked with Stu too right @BrickHead ?
@meastlake1 I always appreciate how much time and thought you put into your posts sir.
Damn good post. Had to come back from the dead one time to give you props on this one and the other ones and the great advice in general from @blshaw and @BrickHead and @mnben87 and @Meathead56. Good to read all the great stuff you guys are giving others for “free”.
Take care guys. I keep reading on here intermittently and maybe see some of you over at EM.
Best,
Dead Guy
Yes, Stu, who is also a close friend of mine.
Thanks guys. I think in my specific situation I can provide useful advice/guidance given my background with competitive bodybuilding and then from that [unfortunately but not unexpectedly] having to begin TRT DUE to the bodybuilding. That alone I feel should hopefully let these newer/younger guys know that when you really start messing hard with AAS, and either don’t know what you are doing or [in my case] simply really taking high doses of multiple AAS, what will most likely happen to your body. Granted, I am actually in perfect health, but due to my past I am now stuck on TRT.
Great post. I have people come up to me in the gym and ask what I do. I tell them:
In that priority order. But all they hear is “roids” lol. It’s 10% of the equation for me. TRT got me back to functioning properly and TOT/cruising has given me a nice bump over natural that feels reasonably sustainable. I’m guessing I’m carrying 10-15 lbs of extra muscle/fluid than I would naturally.
I don’t have veins coming out of my quads because of roids. That’s what people don’t get. At the end of the day, I’d rather be super lean from discipline/no roids than puffy soft with no discipline/roids.
But the balls gave up on me years ago, so I’ve chosen to cruise on roids while following proper protocols to avoid negative sides as best I can. And there’s no free lunch with any of this. At some point down the road my payment will likely come due even with being careful. To think this probability is 0% is foolish.
I like giving people compliments. I’m fine if you want to call that ass kissing. I did want to know whether AAS contributed to their physiques, but I wanted to ask politely.
I got a solid answer that helped solidify my knowledge that TRT would not be a route to major improvements in my physique. I do agree with them that you asked for advice and then you argued with them when they gave you an answer you didn’t agree with.
In your defense though, I do think the culture on this board is quite gruff. Answers are very no-bullshit, but that’s kind of par for the course right? I expect if I ask for advice on T-Nation, there are going to be some brutal responses lol Doesn’t mean these guys don’t want what’s best for you.
Now, more importantly…
Who is this Stu and where can I learn more about him? lol
Former poster here, ex-WNBF pro natural bodybuilder, contest prep coach, friend of mine.
He had several contest prep threads here and he helped with the one show I did and several other posters here with their preps and physique goals.
Actually I haven’t really disagreed with anything said.
Finasteride use seems to split opinion.
I was told the difference between trt and a steroid cycle and admitted fault on the topic title.
And then stated that raising my testosterone levels would produce beneficial results in terms of muscle building, which is correct.
And everyone has just gone on a rant and assumed a whole lot of things. None of you have any idea what my level of training is, what level I compete at or even what I compete in. No clue about my diet and no clue about my discipline.
It’s just a bunch of guys who like the sound of their own voice and gain some sort of weird sense of self-importance by ranting on a forum.
I particularly enjoyed the whining about how hard being on trt is. You guys should be damn well singing and skipping to every doctor’s appointment and thanking the gods every time you pin yourself. Let’s face it, if it weren’t for modern medicine you guys would be one step away from being ladyboys.
Brilliant plan “mate”. Come on here seeking information and then insult people who have a wealth of knowledge and experience.
You’re correct about that and I’m guilty as charged. I get straight to the point but quite frankly I answer a lot of people’s questions (and emails). Many times it’s the same shit over and over. So when a guy starts getting off standish because I’m not pampering his ass enough I get even more gruff. Brick head is much better at being political.
Here’s the thing… if you’re low T it will help a ton. If you’re not, it may give you an edge but probably won’t be dramatic. That’s why you don’t just stick yourself without getting lab work first because you “feel” a certain way.
I have no problem with the no-BS culture haha I’ve learned a ton in the ~2 weeks since I joined. 
Isn’t that what forums are for? 