Wanting to Start TRT

Pharma / TRT
1

Hi all,

First post here, been doing a lot of reading.

I am UK based so things are a little different here, we don’t have health insurance and TRT would be very difficult to get through our National Health Service so the TRT would be funded and sourced myself.

37 year old male and feeling like my testosterone has dipped in the past year in a big way. Less motivation, more tired, less strength etc

I’ve done a Test E and D-bol cycle when I was younger and used Finasteride and HCG throughout. I did suffer with testicular tightening which the HCG shot helped with. Had no real side effects from anything in the cycle other than water bloat from the D-bol. I had bad depression during PCT but I was young and probably didn’t hit the PCT right.

The TRT for me would likely be a lifelong thing which is a huge commitment. I suffer with mild hair loss so would have to run Finasteride a long side it which worries me to take long term.

I have a couple of questions which I’m hoping you guys will answer for me. As well as comment on the above.

Last time I used Test E I pinned twice a week. I’m now reading a lot of people pin once a week. Obviously once a week is preferable but is there draw backs to this?

Doseage for Test E - thoughts? I have never had bloods done but would think my testosterone levels were on the high end of the scale when I was younger and I would like to get them back to those levels.

HCG - needed? Doseage?

Is there anything else I should be taking along side TRT? Hormone based or supplement based?

Thank you for any help given,

K.

2

Have you drawn labs to find out? You’re right that NHS is likely out of the question but there are private providers. Either way it’s not something you “want” to do. It’s a medical treatment for hypogonadism. Find out if you’re low first by testing TT, FT, E2, Fsh, Lh, and SHBG.

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Stay off that sh**! You are taking away the benefits of optimal DHT, needed for sexual and brain health. There’s more going on than just blocking DHT, you’re blocking the conversion of countless other brain hormones.

Stick with what worked, not everyone is doing weekly injections. This issue I have with weekly injections is my hormones would be higher the first half of the week, compared to the latter.

I like consistency.

Outside of fertility, the majority of men don’t need hCG.

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Let me be the first to just outright break the news to you man…If you’re 37 and already experiencing mild hair loss…you should just accept that hair loss is in your genetics and there’s almost nothing (besides taking propecia, but that only will just slow it down a bit, but really prolong the inevitable. Plus the sides, like others mentioned, are just not worth it) that you can do. It’s GOING TO HAPPEN. So, do like most men nowadays and just shave your head and move on with more important things. I was discussing this very thing with some friends the other day, and it seems like in 2023, most men that have balding/thinning hair just go ahead and get a buzz cut. It seems pretty normal now to see men everywhere rocking the shaved head. Also, most women really don’t give a crap! It’s only those of us who cannot accept fate who stress over it. To be honest, I personally think a shaved head looks WAY better than a dude with a horribly aggressive receding hairline, who tries to comb it over or disguise it…OR a dude with the ol bald head halo on top, who also tries the desperate comb over. That to me looks way worse, way more pathetic than a dude who just has a shaved head.

Sorry for the long reply, it’s just that so many guys get so hung up or upset their hair is thinning or they are balding, when it is sadly out of our control. It doesn’t matter how we live, how healthy we are, how much we exercise, etc, if it’s in our genes, it’s gonna happen. Then, especially those of us on here who are/have experimented with AAS…ha, when you do that, you greatly accelerate whatever balding was already present in your genes. Why do you think almost all pro BB’ers (except the few lucky ones) have shaved heads? Not because they all just think it’s cool…it’s because with all of the high levels of androgens in their blood, their hair didn’t stand a chance.

And if you’re going to get on TRT, dude, your already “mild hair loss” will soon become full on hair loss. But I’d rather be on TRT and feeling great, making better gains in the gym, handling my business with my woman, etc. instead of trying to save the few remaining hairs on my head…that WILL eventually fall out.

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I don’t really agree with this. Propecia / finasteride seems to work pretty well as long as one keeps taking it. For some with really aggressive hair loss (started perhaps teens / early 20s), then it may just prolong how long one has hair. There was a 10 year study in South Korea that most had as much hair as at baseline. A few had better hair, a few had worse hair after 10 years.

The side effects I believe to be overblown. The studies seem to point to only a few percent of guys that even get them to start with. The vast majority can’t tell they are even taking a drug aside from the effects on hair. I don’t deny some do have side effects while taking finasteride. It happens. However, if the sides are too bad, stop taking it. Since most don’t get them, I think it’s worth a trial for most guys if they catch the hair loss early (it isn’t worth taking if one is already bald and hoping to get their hair back, because it almost for sure won’t happen). The only side effect I get from these type of drugs is a higher libido. I get used to it though. I suspect it is because of higher testosterone levels (since I am stopping the conversion of T into DHT). Could also be slightly higher E2 is a libido enhancer for me.

I caught my thinning early after a few years of TRT and occasional blasts. It was super mild and only really around the crown. My hair is thicker now than it was at that time. I probably have only a mild case genetically. I probably wouldn’t have noticed it yet if I never touched gear.

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Regarding the hair loss. I thinned a little at the front in my mid 20’s and haven’t lost a great deal more. All the men in my family follow the same pattern and the sides, back and crown stay thick. Perfect candidate for a hair transplant which would literally bring me back to a full head of hair as the loss is mild.

I do get the whole ‘just accept it and shave it off’ thing though. If it was gone and you can move past it and grow confident with it then that’s a lot more attractive than someone that’s self conscious of something.

To the first reply - maybe TRT was the wrong term to use in the opening post. I guess I’m considering a Test E cycle that may turn long term. I’m thinking of stacking it with BPC-157 to help aid the healing of damaged rotator cuffs. I’ve recently completed a cycle of TB500 which did absolutely nothing for me. Overall I’d just like to actually get some results from the work I put in. Most of you guys will know what I mean. When you’re young you go to the gym and put muscle on easily. When you’re older you finally have the discipline and work ethic to train like a demon and get your diet on point but the results are minimal in comparison to what they once would have been.

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The question before you assess whether you need (not want) TRT: are you hypogonadal?

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You mean the studies provided by Merck?

I believe men are still putting the pieces together years later, that Finasteride may be to blame for their continuing health problems, doctors commonly dismiss, therefore underreporting events in men taking Finasteride.

Side effects on Finasteride are quite common and playing Russian roulette on what might happen later on in life to brain health. A pretty big gamble.

Blocking MANY other brain hormones to prevent hair is the most stupidest f***ing thing you can do. Solve one problem, potentially create many more.

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Hi Brickhead,

I’m sorry I fail to see the relevance. Regardless of whether someone needs something or not if they want something and are able to get it they will have it.

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Well that is true but I’ll ask what’s the point of TRT if there is no hypogonadism? Sort of like what’s the point of using thyroid if there’s no hypothyroidism.

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There are many studies that weren’t conducted by Merck that show a low incidence of side effects. There are 0 high quality studies that show long term side effects after stopping finasteride.

You can believe what you want, but there isn’t good evidence for that belief. Before finasteride, a large amount of people believed that dental fillings causes a ton of side effects (fairly similar ones too) without evidence. These things are correlation. A common logical error humans make is to confuse correlation with causation. When you have 8 million dudes just in the US on finasteride, a few will almost certainly make that error.

It is really great that we have scientific research to help us quantify such risks. The reality is that almost every dude on finasteride can’t tell they are taking anything aside from having better hair.

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I think it’s a safe bet to say that at 37 if I pinned testosterone and aimed the dosage to be at the high end of the scale for an 18 year old then I would very likely get great results.

I guess there’s a fine line between what’s considered TRT and what’s considered an AAS cycle.

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In regards to Finasteride use. I have used it before for several months with no side effects.

However. No drug is free. I believe that any drug you take has some physical cost in the long run. It seems as though the greater the reward - the higher that physical cost.

I am on the fence about Finasteride use long term.

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I encourage you to do more research if you are considering taking it. I do for anything I am considering taking. FWIW, I was once against finasteride. You can see that in my posts on here from a few years ago. I changed my mind on it.

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You can “think” all you want but you clearly have no real understanding of pharma. You are dead wrong. For example my 40 year old buddy recently tested mid range for TT/FT and still found a doc to prescribe him. His TT went from 550 to 1050 roughly. He got nothing out of it, but then again I warned him. Now he wants to quit but it’s a process and he may not recover fully, although I would say he likely will. That’s just one example from my personal life but there are a ton from forum discussions.

Further, dialing in can be difficult for many and some never feel right. You need to make sure you’re hypogonadal as @BrickHead stated and as did I in my original post. Then again you likely won’t listen to experienced members anyway but I would hope at 37 your mature and smart enough to follow the right process.

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I think what it is many, many times (based upon all of the very similar posts I’ve seen) is guys are pumped to “get on TRT” because they think that those of us who are already on it have gamed the system, gamed our doctors and we’re all on a mini-cycle/steroids! That we’re all immediately making great gains in the gym, reducing bodyfat while increasing our lean body mass and we’re all celebrating on the beach, drinking coronas. Many people come on here with these cockamamie preconceived notions of what TRT is, but it couldn’t be further from that.

Most don’t seem to grasp the gravity of being prescribed Testosterone injections FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, that every few months you have to go refill it at the pharmacy, every few months you have to see your prescribing physician for a checkup and bloodwork, that at the minimum once a week (and for some 2-3X a week) you’ve got to stick yourself with a needle, that you’ve really got to keep a close eye on your body and blood test results in case one of the many potential side effects begins rearing its ugly head, etc. Do many of us end up losing some BF and gaining some muscle? Sure! But that is not at all the primary reason why we’ve made the decision, along with our doctor, to embark on a lifetime of doing all of the aforementioned.

Hell, I’ll be completely honest with you (and I think perhaps others might’ve had this experience themselves), when I first began taking my test cypionate injections, was I a little excited about the prospect of boosting my test levels up into the very upper-normal range…maybe even a little beyond that? You’re goddam right I was! Just the very fact that I enjoy a site like this lets you know I enjoy lifting weights, pushing myself in the gym and building a healthier, stronger body. You know how long that initial excitement lasted? Ha, less than a month… AT MOST! And then afterwards, taking my weekly test injection became as routine as any other chore/routine you do like taking out the trash once/twice a week, vacuuming your house once a week, filling up your gas tank once a week before the work week, etc. It merely becomes yet another chore that you must execute, and it really, truly does lose that luster. Especially once your body’s levels of hormones level out and reach a steady state…it just really becomes another routine. I think what also makes it become just a routine is that you are NOT on a “cycle of AAS”, and thus you will NOT be continually adding slabs of muscle, or continually increasing what you lift in the gym. Again, you will experience some (nothing usually dramatic) of these things the first few months on TRT, but again, eventually it levels off and you become just another lifter trying to stay fit but hoping to add a little bit here and there over time.

But don’t lost sight of the fact you will be on TRT FOREVER! 52 weeks a year, week in and week out, sticking your body a minimum of 52 times a year with needles. It is NOT some perpetual AAS cycle. It is just like people with high cholesterol taking their prescribed medications on time, all the time, non stop. Nothing more.

Still feel as excited about TRT OP?

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True words right here.

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You need bloodwork to help verify the cause of your symptoms.

Finasteride and T are sort of competing against each other. The reality is you probably need to choose which is more important to you to optimize one or the other - overall health or your hair.

And the likely reality is if you’re losing your hair at 37…genetics 1, your hair 0 final score.

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For sure true. Optimal nutrition, recovery, and training will show better long term body comp changes than legitimate TRT. You get the initial improvement from just getting everything back working “correctly”, but it doesn’t continue as you say.

“I’ve been on 150 mg/week of T for 6 months, why aren’t I at 1% body fat with 37” arms?!?!?!”

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Thank you, THANK YOU, for saying this!

I wish I never became hypogonadal in my early 20’s from no known cause! I never used steroids and never had a pituitary injury. I do have two children, but I did not want to use HCG to have them. Seriously, who the hell wants to consult a doctor for his wife to have kids and have to worry if he can even have kids!

I have never used more than 10 grams of Androgel or Testim per day or 100 mg of testosterone cypionate per week. My levels are usually 700 to 1000 ng/dl on any day tested. I do not feel like some bionic man and I have never experienced abnormal progress in physical function or muscular growth. I feel like a typical 40-something year old man.

Real TRT gives a man normal physical and cognitive function. It is medicine for a medical condition, nothing more. Hence my comparison to thyroid for hypothyroidism or metoprolol for hypertension. There’s nothing fun about this. I don’t like pharmacy or doctor’s visits. Who does?

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