T Nation

Wanted to See if This Plan is Correct

i have been lurking through numerous forums and learning as much as i can besides reading my anabolic book back from 2007 about steroids.
i don’t really fully trust evolutionarily cause they praise ai’s ,but on this forum is seems like it causes more trouble in the long run
maybe if i was running a gram of test and tren i might need a ai but that’s a whole new ball game.

in the past i have messed with deca and eq, test but never a real game plan.
when i recently had my test levels checked they were 318. low normal range. free test was 54.3
i wanted to try to bring it up so ran 250 a week on sustonon. got my levels in the 900s .
im not competitive bodybuilding or anything, just wanting to add some more muscle with the least amount of side effects with using peds. also just wanting to feel better that i was with lower numbers
but basically what i have got from the info is less is best
adding a ai in the mix can causes a shit ton of problems and better just to lower the dose
clomid and nolva are only for pct and they can cause problems also, so forewarned.

i thing a good cycle would be 200 to 300mg of test a week and 300 mg of eq for 16 to 20 weeks
if you get symptoms of high e2, lower your test . dont run to an ai
mabye take nolvadex for a few days
with that low a dose may not need an ai.
sure the cycle wont turn you into the hulk, but you can make decent gains . ive even heard eq can have a anti estrogen effect, but idk.

im not sure about how many times a week you should pin. like if it matters once a week or e3d. seems like more is better to keep levels stable . but a ester like test c i would think just once week is fine.

i plan on talking to my docter to see if i can even get on trt. idk what they will say since ive been on test

do you guys think this sounds like im on the right track so far?

This is as far as I read and I am not reading any farther.
I will just say. BS Ai’s have a place in this hobby.

Not interested in arguing with anyone on this subject.
In fact I probably won’t return to this thread since this topic I why I left our forum two years ago.
I was in complete opposition to the group think back then. I only returned because those guy moved on or got ban I don’t know. I just hope no one got gyno or ended up in the emergency room with an E2 panic attack.

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This seems like a fairly hardline stance based upon anecdotal experience.

Not everyone reacts the same way to high E2. You’ve got people like me who turn into a bloatmonster and others who seem to stay dry on high dose test.

Anabolic steroids mediate neurological dysregulation, you have people on tren with panic attacks; tren doesn’t aromatize but progestins alter dopaminergic transmission. Obviously estrogen mediates neurological homeostasis too, too much of any given variable can spell disaster for those predisposed. Everyone is different, there is no given "sweet spot’ for everyone because neurobiological makeup differs from person to person.

A big portion of the “no AI argument” was in relation to physiological testosterone replacement. If you’re taking 100mg test/wk and have a TT of 650mg/DL and a FT in the upper quartile of the ref range you almost certainly don’t need an AI barring obesity, aromatase excess syndrome, klinefelters etc.

Anabolic steroid use however is a different ballgame with different parameters/dynamics. Too much estrogen isn’t healthy, not enough estrogen isn’t healthy, too much testosterone isn’t healthy, too little isn’t healthy either. As to what constitutes the optimal ratio/selection of pharmaceuticals for harm minimisation within an unhealthy hobby is unknown.

Dbossa was banned for his demeanour/picking on those who didn’t agree with him. Physiolojik wasn’t banned, but left after he was called out (interestingly enough by Dbossa) for being a con artist.

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Really? Damn. I didn’t follow that as I’m nearly exclusively in this section but that sounds harsh.

They do. The bottom line is, every body is different and some will need it at a specific dose, others won’t.

You find it out by running test by itself at 4-500 mg per week your first cycle. Then you know if you need one from there on out.

Not particularly. He went on tirades, repeatedly insulting other members who didn’t agree with his set of beleifs. Also consistently talked badly about the forum as a whole, bashing the integrity and quality of the forum.

He would also spread “plandemic”/covid related conspiracy theories on his Facebook, make posts about how wearing a mask impeded his civil liberties. He meant well and seemed like a legitimately nice guy, but sometimes came across as arrogant, very passionate about what be believed in and overtly aggressive; though I don’t believe this was intentional.

I can’t complain though, he got me 1.5K refunded over the physiolojik drama. In my books… He’s good lol

Dbossa also ran a Facebook group, it’s a pretty solid group at that too… So long as you adhere to strict guidelines. Members questioning various ideologies are picked apart, thrown to the wolves and kicked out. It’s a herd/mob mentality.

Have you ever run high dosages like this (4-500mg/wk)?

Are you on TRT?

Just wondering.

Ok, I get it if he’s insulting people and as far as I know this forum, it is a fair place where you can exchange ideas even if you’re wrong, so I’ll trust Chris on this.

I don’t think that belongs in that post haha. For that you shouldn’t get banned I believe. And I don’t think one will.

Nope. That’s why I mainly advise on harm minimization or if I tell someone to use less. Also what to avoid, research or pharmaceutical drugs I’m experienced with in either giving or taking (including some PEDs).

I’m planning on doing it, but I’m not quite there yet.

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Not everyone reacts the same way to high E2. You’ve got people like me who turn into a bloatmonster and others who seem to stay dry on high dose test.

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Completely agree, before TRT my e2 was mid range, now on 120mg it’s 10 points above the top of the range and I’m always feeling bloated and have started to experience acne breakouts like never before in my life. Rather than going the AI route I’ve first decided to lower dose to 110mg and go from a MWF protocol to daily shots…hoping this will bring e2 back down, and if it doesn’t I might give a small AI protocol a try. High e2 affects everyone differently. There is no standard one fits all experience with hormones.

Thanks

While probably not on the same level, I got a vibe from dbossa that he was conning people (or at least on here to promote his services). He talked an awful lot about how he was just on here, Facebook and YouTube to help people (I don’t understand why he always needed to say that, acting like he was some saint for helping all of us dumbasses). He used fallacious reasoning liberally (you can ask @readalot about that lol, those two did get into it a bit). I am not convinced he was a con (or just on here to make money), but he gave me that vibe.

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It was well deserved and long overdue. While I agree with most of his stance, his reasoning was flawed and he was an asshole.

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Wasn’t he doing consults towards the end?

Regardless I’m going to bow out at this point. There isn’t much to gain in me continually speaking about someone who can’t give a rebuttal because he isn’t on the forum anymore.

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i dont think 300 EQ would do much… my belief is - if test is 300, EQ should be 600. And for most people, take as much tabs of Anastrozole as CCs of test u take, so if 300 test a week is like…what…1,2mls of test then you could start with 1 tab of anastrozole split up in maybe 4 parts during the week, but you really need to do bloods for this, because im at 400 test and 800eq now, but my E2 gets a boner even when it smells test, so im eating a whole tab of anastrozole daily, and no, EQ does nothing for my E2… i wouldnt say that you shouldnt use AIs… i could agree that - if you dont FEEL any different, maybe you dont need them, but i feel just weak and sick and depressed if my E2 is twice the norm, so i do what i have to, to feel better.

As for injection frequency - on such low doses you can do once every 4 days, but as i said, i dont think EQ does shit at such low dose, and if you bump it up to at least normal-low dose, for me, its easier to do more frequency and less CCs, than to pump 3ccs at once.

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So I guess it’s better to get blood work to be sure where you’re e2 is so you don’t make a mistake and drop your estrogen too low.
I think even me if my nipples get a tad sore I panic but my levels might be normal and I think I have to take something when I really don’t.

What size needle are you using?
I’ve been reading a lot of people are doing 25 Gauge and then some people are even using 29 g with a insulin syringe

Yes, just do bloods now, and do them in 10 days, see what changes. If e2 gets high, start low dose of AIs and check again in a week. I know its a pain in the ass to do bloods all the time but its just the ONLY way you can be sure. No one on the forums can help you better than actually seeing your own results.

As for needles - i use 23g… i dont even see how a 29g can go deep enough… maybe in arms or shoulders, but i do 23g, and i push it all in if i do glutes, and 2/3 if i do quads.

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Oh boy. We shouldn’t measure in tabs and CCs. We are all different too. Why should someone who stays dry on high test, with good erections, good libido, and no nipple issues be taking an AI? There is just too much individuality with AAS for a blanket statement like that to make sense. You do seem to acknowledge that individuality is important down below (which is good). Just be careful with advice like this as some people will crash their E2 with the approach above.

I don’t think 10 days is long enough for EQ to see the impact on E2, or to know if E2 is going to be an issue. It will be still very much in the ramp up phase of the cycle.

It is good that you recommended doing bloods though.

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Yep he was.

Yes, i see where i made some mistakes in my comment - i agree with you 100%, i just seem to not be able to get my tought across like i ment(english is my third language). He asked about AIs and i said what i have learned from my experience, but yes - there are people who need much less. The “tabs” and “CCs” concept wasnt ment to be like an universal answer - it was “what works for me”.

Also, yes, EQ doesnt even do shit in 10 days. I said 10days as in - if you are not sure about stuff, bloodwork once a week or every 10 days is just good to do, and if shit gets bad, you know it as soon as possible.

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Bodybuilding isn’t cheap is it lol.
Doing those blood works can get expensive checking them pretty often.
But it’s better than getting your body all out of whack where it takes a lot more money to get everything fixed.

A I’s like arimidex and aromasin scare me a little bit and don’t really wanna mess with him unless i totally have to

I can’t link it (against forum rules), but if you are in the states, and not in New York (or a couple other states where it isn’t allowed), go to discounted labs dot com. You can get BBer packages. I got one recently (I got a bit more than what you likely need, with DHT, and IGF-1 and a few more expensive labs). I think it was $275. They have one with TT, FT, E2, SHBG, prolactin, lipids, liver values, and kidney values for like $160.

The bloodwork is more expensive for me than the gear, but I keep it simple.

I think one should have a good reason for using an AI. Symptoms are a good reason, but be sure not to confuse low and high E2. With EQ that is more difficult to do. You likely need symptoms and numbers (bloodwork) to justify an AI in many cases (gyno is a dead give away you need a SERM, AI or a lowering / cessation of dose).

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People said this about primo “primo needs to be run for at least 12 weeks before you see results”.

I noticed it working in 3-4 weeks

I’ve never used EQ and never will, just wondering if it’s a similar concept. I keep hearing one needs super high EQ dosages for it to work.

I would’ve tried it had it at like 200mg/wk (about as potent as 100-150mg test right?) for purported benefits regarding aerobic conditioning not been for the penchant it has for inducing anxiety