Want to Start Training, Stuck on the Diet

Seriously, you’re going to screw up any hope of progress if you overthink this stuff. You just need to eat as much as you can of healthy foods (not pie!) and lift intensely. Learn to eat when not hungry, etc.

I’ve been there, man, and I’m not saying this to be an ass: You are a male, 6’, and 140 lbs. You need to start there. Your body is at this weight begging you to give it the nutrients it needs to even feel like its reasonably well resourced, much less going beyond normal human muscle mass.

You need at least 183g of protein, imo. Don’t overthink the protein thing at this point: you need to just eat a shitload of meat, vegetables, blahblahblah (reasonable foods).

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Seriously, you’re going to screw up any hope of progress if you overthink this stuff. You just need to eat as much as you can of healthy foods (not pie!) and lift intensely. Learn to eat when not hungry, etc.

I’ve been there, man, and I’m not saying this to be an ass: You are a male, 6’, and 140 lbs. You need to start there. Your body is at this weight begging you to give it the nutrients it needs to even feel like its reasonably well resourced, much less going beyond normal human muscle mass.

You need at least 183g of protein, imo. Don’t overthink the protein thing at this point: you need to just eat a shitload of meat, vegetables, blahblahblah (reasonable foods).[/quote]

That’s fine, can I eat whole grain pasta and bread then? Getting the protein is NOT going to be a problem, I’m only worried about how I’m supposed to get enough callories. I do appreciate the help, but if I understand the protein thing (which I do) I don’t need that clarified any more. I get it, eat protein. CHECK, now what else can I/should I eat?

First, you need to be training hard. Be on a program that involves the major lifts (deadlift, squat, bench, overhead press).

Regarding diet:

First, use the search function on this site. Many many pages have been spent discussing this stuff already.

What foods is going to be determined by the individual and what works best for them. Personally, I don’t eat any grains.

Shop on the outside of the grocery store. Avoid crap that is processed. Invest in spices and such and learn to cook.

green vegetables
Peanut butter
Nuts
Fish (especially fatty fish)
Ground Beef
Chicken breasts
white potatoes (post-workout)
whey protein

[quote]SargeMaximus wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Seriously, you’re going to screw up any hope of progress if you overthink this stuff. You just need to eat as much as you can of healthy foods (not pie!) and lift intensely. Learn to eat when not hungry, etc.

I’ve been there, man, and I’m not saying this to be an ass: You are a male, 6’, and 140 lbs. You need to start there. Your body is at this weight begging you to give it the nutrients it needs to even feel like its reasonably well resourced, much less going beyond normal human muscle mass.

You need at least 183g of protein, imo. Don’t overthink the protein thing at this point: you need to just eat a shitload of meat, vegetables, blahblahblah (reasonable foods).[/quote]

That’s fine, can I eat whole grain pasta and bread then? Getting the protein is NOT going to be a problem, I’m only worried about how I’m supposed to get enough callories. I do appreciate the help, but if I understand the protein thing (which I do) I don’t need that clarified any more. I get it, eat protein. CHECK, now what else can I/should I eat?
[/quote]

Yes, pasta and bread are fine. Apart from junk food and sweets eat everything thats not tied down.

Matt Rhodes lays it down…
http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/default.asp?qid=164452&tid=159

Honestly, at this point the way people screw up is undereating. Approach food choice with common sense: you know you shouldn’t be eating french fries, pie, or any junk food like that. If the average person calls it junk food, then you should probably avoid it. Focus on eating enough at this point.

When you get to 170lbs, post back on this forum and then people can further discuss diet with you. At this point, it’s probably not going to matter because you’re so underweight (assuming you get in enough protein).

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Honestly, at this point the way people screw up is undereating. Approach food choice with common sense: you know you shouldn’t be eating french fries, pie, or any junk food like that. If the average person calls it junk food, then you should probably avoid it. Focus on eating enough at this point.

When you get to 170lbs, post back on this forum and then people can further discuss diet with you. At this point, it’s probably not going to matter because you’re so underweight (assuming you get in enough protein).[/quote]
Alright, sounds like a plan. Should I look into buying precision nutrition or anything like that or is that a waste of money?

Supplements:

cheap protein powder
fish oil caps from grocery store
zinc+magnesium vitamin from grocery store
creatine monohydrate

you will see a lot of different stores and such selling various magic pills for various huge chunks of change. Ignore 'em.

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:
Supplements:

cheap protein powder
fish oil caps from grocery store
zinc+magnesium vitamin from grocery store
creatine monohydrate

you will see a lot of different stores and such selling various magic pills for various huge chunks of change. Ignore 'em.[/quote]
Thanks for all the help.

[quote]SargeMaximus wrote:
I’ve read that skinny guys (like myself, ectomorphs?) need basic compound training maybe three days a week? Is this right? Also, planning a diet without pasta (even whole grain?) or potatoes and etc seems near impossible (someone above mentioned no grains).
[/quote]

No, you do not need to limit yourself to 3 days a week by any means. As with any other sport or skill, more IS better as long as you can recover. If you wanted to start playing basketball, would you limit yourself to only practicing for 40 minutes 3 days a week, when you had the time and energy to practice 5 days a week for 90 minutes? It is obvious which method will produce better results.

People love to talk about a bunch of stuff like “CNS burnout” and “neural recovery” and “overtraining” and measuring “volume and intensity” and blah blah blah. Do yourself a huge favor and pay zero attention to all of that stuff. (I wish I had done so when I was a beginner… because it absolutely killed my progress for years)

Doing all the traditional bodybuilding exercises, and doing them often, and getting strong with them by training 5-6 days a week with a mindset of eating to gain and training to add another 5lbs to the bar whenever you can is the straightest line from point A (skinny and weak) to point B (large and strong).

Bread and pasta are perfectly fine to eat. If you find that your waist is expanding more than you want, it’s also fine to cut back on carb-heavy things like that for a while.

I would suggest eating 200 grams of protein every day. Obviously as your bodyweight increases significantly, this number will also have to increase over time, but I wouldn’t bother counting anything else daily unless you find yourself truly struggling to gain weight. Then just count calories to make sure you’re getting enough every day.

Don’t worry about labels like “ectomorph” or any of that nonsense, they aren’t an accurate measure of anything. And don’t worry about trying to calculate the exact number of calories you’re “supposed” to be eating. You will know you are eating enough when you are gaining weight. If you aren’t gaining that much, you add more calories. If you’re gaining too much fat, you either add some cardiovascular exercise, or you cut back on carbs a little bit.

If you’re doing everything correctly, you should be adding at least 10lbs to all your big lifts every month, gaining a few lbs of bodyweight every month, and seeing your muscles growing after several months of consistent lifting and eating (consistent being a critical point there).

The exact routine you do doesn’t matter, but just in case you didn’t know, these are the basic bodybuilding exercises for each major muscle group:

biceps - barbell curls, dumbbell curls
triceps - close-grip bench, lying extension, overhead extension
shoulders - barbell press, db press, db raises
back - pullups, pulldowns, barbell rows, deadlifts
chest - bench press, incline bench press, flies
thighs - squat, leg curl
calves - standing raises, seated raises
abs - situps, leg raises

If I told you that bodybuilding was as simple as doing those exercises for 4 sets of 8-12 repetitions each (starting light and adding weight each set so that you reach muscle failure at 8-12 non-stop repetitions on your 4th set), and that it didn’t matter what routine you did except you must do all of those exercises twice each week and train 4-6 days a week… while eating 200 grams of protein and enough calories to gain bodyweight… do you think you could handle that?

[quote]mr popular wrote:

[quote]SargeMaximus wrote:
I’ve read that skinny guys (like myself, ectomorphs?) need basic compound training maybe three days a week? Is this right? Also, planning a diet without pasta (even whole grain?) or potatoes and etc seems near impossible (someone above mentioned no grains).
[/quote]

No, you do not need to limit yourself to 3 days a week by any means. As with any other sport or skill, more IS better as long as you can recover. If you wanted to start playing basketball, would you limit yourself to only practicing for 40 minutes 3 days a week, when you had the time and energy to practice 5 days a week for 90 minutes? It is obvious which method will produce better results.

People love to talk about a bunch of stuff like “CNS burnout” and “neural recovery” and “overtraining” and measuring “volume and intensity” and blah blah blah. Do yourself a huge favor and pay zero attention to all of that stuff. (I wish I had done so when I was a beginner… because it absolutely killed my progress for years)

Doing all the traditional bodybuilding exercises, and doing them often, and getting strong with them by training 5-6 days a week with a mindset of eating to gain and training to add another 5lbs to the bar whenever you can is the straightest line from point A (skinny and weak) to point B (large and strong).

Bread and pasta are perfectly fine to eat. If you find that your waist is expanding more than you want, it’s also fine to cut back on carb-heavy things like that for a while.

I would suggest eating 200 grams of protein every day. Obviously as your bodyweight increases significantly, this number will also have to increase over time, but I wouldn’t bother counting anything else daily unless you find yourself truly struggling to gain weight. Then just count calories to make sure you’re getting enough every day.

Don’t worry about labels like “ectomorph” or any of that nonsense, they aren’t an accurate measure of anything. And don’t worry about trying to calculate the exact number of calories you’re “supposed” to be eating. You will know you are eating enough when you are gaining weight. If you aren’t gaining that much, you add more calories. If you’re gaining too much fat, you either add some cardiovascular exercise, or you cut back on carbs a little bit.

If you’re doing everything correctly, you should be adding at least 10lbs to all your big lifts every month, gaining a few lbs of bodyweight every month, and seeing your muscles growing after several months of consistent lifting and eating (consistent being a critical point there).

The exact routine you do doesn’t matter, but just in case you didn’t know, these are the basic bodybuilding exercises for each major muscle group:

biceps - barbell curls, dumbbell curls
triceps - close-grip bench, lying extension, overhead extension
shoulders - barbell press, db press, db raises
back - pullups, pulldowns, barbell rows, deadlifts
chest - bench press, incline bench press, flies
thighs - squat, leg curl
calves - standing raises, seated raises
abs - situps, leg raises

If I told you that bodybuilding was as simple as doing those exercises for 4 sets of 8-12 repetitions each (starting light and adding weight each set so that you reach muscle failure at 8-12 non-stop repetitions on your 4th set), and that it didn’t matter what routine you did except you must do all of those exercises twice each week and train 4-6 days a week… while eating 200 grams of protein and enough calories to gain bodyweight… do you think you could handle that?[/quote]
Alright, sounds simple enough, except for my time. As it stands, to get 8 hours of sleep a night, I have 3 hours free time (not counting eating, going to and from the gym, or recovery) Since I’m already tired when I get home from work, I obviously don’t want to over do it, but I also want to do something. :stuck_out_tongue:

So anyhow, do I have to do them all? I imagine this is a program for maximum gains, which I’d love to be able to do, but the time and recovery factor concerns me.
EDIT: I actually have 4 hours of free time, wednesdays I like to go to bed early, so that would be a 3/hour day. I also don’t work weekends (sat/sun)

Like, do I have to do every single exercise of just every single muscle group? Thanks.

[quote]SargeMaximus wrote:
Alright, sounds simple enough, except for my time. As it stands, to get 8 hours of sleep a night, I have 3 hours free time (not counting eating, going to and from the gym, or recovery) Since I’m already tired when I get home from work, I obviously don’t want to over do it, but I also want to do something. :stuck_out_tongue:

So anyhow, do I have to do them all? I imagine this is a program for maximum gains, which I’d love to be able to do, but the time and recovery factor concerns me.
EDIT: I actually have 4 hours of free time, wednesdays I like to go to bed early, so that would be a 3/hour day. I also don’t work weekends (sat/sun)[/quote]

Well what I laid out wasn’t a program, that was just a list of the basic exercises for each muscle group, although yeah you should be doing most of those in whatever program you do. Any one workout probably won’t take longer than an hour, and definitely shouldn’t take longer than 90 minutes. You should have plenty of time.

If you actually wanted me to tell you what program I think would work for you, I would suggest chest/shoulders/triceps on sundays and thursdays, back/biceps/forearms on mondays and fridays, and thighs/calves on tuesdays and saturdays, doing 100+ situps after every workout and taking wednesdays as a rest day.

Chest/shoulders/triceps-Bench press, Incline bench press, Flies, Seated DB press, DB side raises, Skullcrushers, Cable pushdowns

Back/biceps/forearms-Pullups if you can do them, otherwise wide-grip pulldowns, Barbell rows, Dumbbell rows, Barbell curls, Concentration curls, Reverse curls

Thighs/calves-Squat, Leg extensions, Stiff-leg deadlift, Leg curls, Standing calves, Seated calves

You obviously don’t have to do this and it’s not the only program out there, but I personally wish somebody had told me to do this program when I was a beginner, and said just do 4x8-12 for everything and don’t ever miss a workout, add weight when you can get 12 repetitions, and don’t ever fail to hit your protein quota every day. I would have made so much more progress than I did trying to find the “perfect program” and worrying about all the calculations and rocket science that really doesn’t matter.

If I were you, here’s what I would do:

  • Stronglifts 5x5 program, not too taxing at 3x a week once you acclimatize to the squat. Alternatives: Pendlay 5x5, Chad Waterbury Get Strong/Get big.
  • Get up every morning and boil 6-12 potatoes, 6-12 eggs, steam about 2 lbs of veggies and wash about 5-10 fruits. I’d throw in some beef jerky or tuna since you can’t use cheese/milk products.
  • Graze on that food all day long, while not skipping other meals (incl. breakfast) and have and EPIC supper after work. Like steak every night with all the fat.
  • Take fish oil and zinc.
  • Make sure I get 250g of protein per day and drink enough water to produce 6-8 clear urines a day.

At 143, you need to train how to eat in addition to training. Take other supplements if you want to but at 143 I really doubt you need them. Unless you’re 4 foot 6.

I was eating 4,000 cals a day while lifting heavy as a novice and working a deskjob and I gained maybe 5 lbs of fat in 1 year. I would try to aim for 5,700 for you (your daily expenditure + 1000).

One thing I think is worth mentioning:

I recently started training a friend of mine who had never lifted before (he’s 26). One thing that I guess I had forgotten (I’m 24 now and first touched a weight at 14) is that for some (maybe even most), people have to learn to really struggle against weights and to recruit their muscle mass to move weights.

Before you start eating really big, make sure that you have that down first. Regardless of how skinny you are, bad things are going to result if you eat big while not really pushing your limits in the gym. Make sure you know what you’re doing on that front first.

I certainly defer to Mr. Popular in terms of his experience level. At the same time, I would suggest that you at least consider programs that hit your major body parts 3x/week. This can take the form of the Texas Method, Stronglifts, etc. Or you could use the exercise list and recommendations that Mr. Popular provided while doing a 6x/week split of (chest/back/biceps) and (legs/delts/tris) [this is the split for another program called Big Beyond Belief].

[quote]mr popular wrote:

Well what I laid out wasn’t a program, that was just a list of the basic exercises for each muscle group, although yeah you should be doing most of those in whatever program you do. Any one workout probably won’t take longer than an hour, and definitely shouldn’t take longer than 90 minutes. You should have plenty of time.

If you actually wanted me to tell you what program I think would work for you, I would suggest chest/shoulders/triceps on sundays and thursdays, back/biceps/forearms on mondays and fridays, and thighs/calves on tuesdays and saturdays, doing 100+ situps after every workout and taking wednesdays as a rest day.

Chest/shoulders/triceps-Bench press, Incline bench press, Flies, Seated DB press, DB side raises, Skullcrushers, Cable pushdowns

Back/biceps/forearms-Pullups if you can do them, otherwise wide-grip pulldowns, Barbell rows, Dumbbell rows, Barbell curls, Concentration curls, Reverse curls

Thighs/calves-Squat, Leg extensions, Stiff-leg deadlift, Leg curls, Standing calves, Seated calves

You obviously don’t have to do this and it’s not the only program out there, but I personally wish somebody had told me to do this program when I was a beginner, and said just do 4x8-12 for everything and don’t ever miss a workout, add weight when you can get 12 repetitions, and don’t ever fail to hit your protein quota every day. I would have made so much more progress than I did trying to find the “perfect program” and worrying about all the calculations and rocket science that really doesn’t matter.[/quote]
Alright, sounds like a plan. I want to train in the early morning because honestly, after work I don’t feel like doing anything at all >< As for the situps, what if I can’t do 100? how do I know when to stop? also, how do I know what types of weight I’ll be lifting? I assume I’ll just figure it out eh? XD But yeah, I’m pretty excited, will be getting my membership at the gym this weekend. Thanks, you guys, for all your help and patience.

Nobody expects you to be able to do 100 situps in one set as a beginner, I simply meant to do 100 total with as many sets as it took to get there. (For example, 5 sets of 20)

Eventually the weights you use to warm up and prepare your muscles for heavy lifting will be a personal preference for you, but for now just start with a light weight that you can do under good control with good form for 15 or so reps, then add a little weight and do another set of 12 reps or so (not to total exhaustion), add some more weight and do another set like that, and then your final set should be the heaviest weight you can handle for at least 8 reps before being unable to lift it again without stopping to rest. As a rank beginner just feel it out and worry more about your form. Once you feel comfortable with the technique, then you can begin really challlenging yourself (always trying to get one more rep or add another 5lbs than you did last workout on that final set)

As I said before, its just like any other sport or skill. You will get better at it over time the more you do it. You will get the hang of it