Want to Run This Program for 1yr

isdatnutty 2015-03-23 18:20:50 UTC #1

Is this balanced enough?

Current Stats:

BW - 160 lbs
BF% - Unsure, but I think I'm in the low 20's/high teens. Need to get down to where my abs are visible before I start clean bulking.

Current Lifts:

Front Squat - 155 lbs 3x5 (Clean grip)
RDL - 185 3x8 (Clean grip)
OHP - 105 lbs 3x5 (strict)
Deadlift - 245 3x3 (1RM was 285)
Chins/Pulls - 8 Strict (I can do 5x5 BW)
Dips - 25 Straight (Can do 5x10)
Farmers - 225lbs (on trap bar, walk for 25 yards 3x)

Goals: To get stronger, leaner, mobile, athletic and to correct my posture. But to do this without the typical "big 3". I want my big 3 to be front squat, ohp, and deadlifts.

MONDAY
Front Squat 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
ChstSpprtd Rows 5x5
1 Arm DB OHP 3x5
Chin Ups 3xF
Leg Raises 3x12
Reverse Hypers 3x12
Planks Front,Sides,Back
HEAVY Farmers Walk (3 Rounds)

WEDNESDAY
Front Squat 3x5
DB RDL 3x8
T-Bar Row 5x5
Dips 5xF (BW, add weight once I can do 5x10, then switch to a 3x5)
Pull Ups 3xF
Wghtd Dec Situp 3x12
Wghtd Back Ext 3x12
Planks Front,Sides,Back
Barbell Complex (3 Rounds)

FRIDAY
Front Squat 3x5
RDL 3x8
Pendlay Row 5x5
OHP 3x5
Chin Ups 3xF
Ab Roller 3x12
Good Morning 3x12
Planks Front,Sides,Back
HEAVY Farmers Walk (3 Rounds)

TUES/THURS/SUN - I play basketball and do box jumps/agility drills

dagill2 2015-03-23 18:43:16 UTC #2

I see no issue at all with having those 3 as your main lifts, in fact I think you've chosen wisely. However, I think your program is very light on "main lifts" and very high on assistance.

To quote Dan John (again):
"core lifts are core, assistance exercises assist"

isdatnutty 2015-03-23 18:45:31 UTC #3

How would I go about making my "core lifts" more prevalent. Should I go to a 5x5 scheme instead and cut out some of the assistance?

Evolv 2015-03-24 03:02:51 UTC #4

Absolutely. Given your goals, I think your choices of front squats, deadlifts, and overhead press are fine.

I would do something like this:

Monday
Front Squat 5x5
OH Press 5x5
BB Row 5x5
Dips 4xF
Leg Raises

Wednesday
Deadlift 3x5
Front Squat 3x5 (light)
Pull-Ups 4xF
Farmer Carries

Friday
Front Squat 5x5
OH Press 5x5
Pendlay Row 5x5
Dips 4xF
Ab Roller

If you do that with intensity and focus on really pushing getting stronger it should be more than enough.

isdatnutty 2015-03-24 16:27:00 UTC #5

I like this! My only 4 questions on this setup is:

Would my hamstrings/posterior chain be lagging a bit? Should I add RDL, GHR, Back Ext/Hypers?
I always do pullups/chinups between sets. So for Day 2, could I add something in place of doing pull ups? Maybe chest supported rows to give my low back a break?
I want to eventually do Snatch Grip Deadlifts. Could I add in a light session later in the week or within this program?
I know I for sure want to do Power Cleans. Where would I add them in this routine?

Evolv 2015-03-24 17:09:42 UTC #6

No, if you train your squats and deadlifts with intensity, your posterior should get plenty of work. I personally don't think it is necessary to add RDLs and GHRs right now. My opinion is that you should focus on mastering the lifts and getting strong at those, not improving "weaknesses" that you don't know you have yet. Just get really good and strong at the big stuff. You will be squatting 3 days per week!!! Also, remember you are doing BB Rows and Pendlay Rows twice a week, these really work your posterior well if done correctly. If you add the cleans-- even more posterior work!

2.Yeah, that sounds good.

I would just do snatch grip deadlifts on Wednesday as my main lift then. I would not worry about adding in a bunch of extras or variations, it is not at all necessary. Choose one: Conventional DLs or Snatch Grip DLs.

4.Do your cleans on Monday and Friday first thing before your front squats. If you find your are in the gym for too long and your overall intensity starts to drag, do them once a week on Wednesday before deadlifts. Find whichever works best for you.

Just a note and a common mistake I think is that some folks don't realize how much work heavy lifting really is if done right. On paper, a program looks easy and not very long. So, take Monday for example-- that is over 20 sets of exercises. If you add cleans, that is more like 25+ sets. That is A LOT of work. On my lower body days, I will sometimes only do 8-10 working sets-- but my overall effort and intensity is super high. I couldn't do anymore if I tried-- my legs and low back are toast just after those sets. So as you are doing this program, really keep this in mind-- your goal is to improve your strength first and foremost. If you get stronger and more proficient at front squatting, deadlifts, and pressing-- then hip-hip-hooray, that is what you should be after. The goals you listed will fall into place along with this. Do not bother yourself with hitting every angle and method of training-- you will get no where over the long term. Also, one more thing-- you only have so much time and energy you can spend on training. So, when you add something in-- remember IT IS taking away from something else. Doesn't matter how you want to look at it. Over the course of a month, or months, this effort and energy is being used up. So if you start feeling run down, find stuff you can take out. You might think it is super important, but its not. If all you did was front squat, press, deadlift, and do rows-- you would still be doing an awesome workout. Always remember, intensity intensity intensity. Quality over quantity type thing, you know? Hope this helps.

isdatnutty 2015-03-24 17:19:32 UTC #7

THANK YOU SO MUCH MAN! This was really helpful to me. Most helpful response I've ever gotten about programming and working out in general. I really do appreciate it!

isdatnutty 2015-03-24 17:22:16 UTC #8

Evolv wrote:
1. No, if you train your squats and deadlifts with intensity, your posterior should get plenty of work. I personally don't think it is necessary to add RDLs and GHRs right now. My opinion is that you should focus on mastering the lifts and getting strong at those, not improving "weaknesses" that you don't know you have yet. Just get really good and strong at the big stuff. You will be squatting 3 days per week!!! Also, remember you are doing BB Rows and Pendlay Rows twice a week, these really work your posterior well if done correctly. If you add the cleans-- even more posterior work!

2.Yeah, that sounds good.

3. I would just do snatch grip deadlifts on Wednesday as my main lift then. I would not worry about adding in a bunch of extras or variations, it is not at all necessary. Choose one: Conventional DLs or Snatch Grip DLs.

4.Do your cleans on Monday and Friday first thing before your front squats. If you find your are in the gym for too long and your overall intensity starts to drag, do them once a week on Wednesday before deadlifts. Find whichever works best for you.

Just a note and a common mistake I think is that some folks don't realize how much work heavy lifting really is if done right. On paper, a program looks easy and not very long. So, take Monday for example-- that is over 20 sets of exercises. If you add cleans, that is more like 25+ sets. That is A LOT of work. On my lower body days, I will sometimes only do 8-10 working sets-- but my overall effort and intensity is super high. I couldn't do anymore if I tried-- my legs and low back are toast just after those sets. So as you are doing this program, really keep this in mind-- your goal is to improve your strength first and foremost. If you get stronger and more proficient at front squatting, deadlifts, and pressing-- then hip-hip-hooray, that is what you should be after. The goals you listed will fall into place along with this. Do not bother yourself with hitting every angle and method of training-- you will get no where over the long term. Also, one more thing-- you only have so much time and energy you can spend on training. So, when you add something in-- remember IT IS taking away from something else. Doesn't matter how you want to look at it. Over the course of a month, or months, this effort and energy is being used up. So if you start feeling run down, find stuff you can take out. You might think it is super important, but its not. If all you did was front squat, press, deadlift, and do rows-- you would still be doing an awesome workout. Always remember, intensity intensity intensity. Quality over quantity type thing, you know? Hope this helps.

I had one more question for you man. So with the 5x5, would it straight sets, ramped up, or 3 working sets? I'm excited to get started on this program tomorrow!

Evolv 2015-03-24 17:43:17 UTC #9

You are very much welcome dude. Thank you for taking the time to thank me. A lot of times, members here will give really good advice to someone and it is like it just disappears in the internet cosmos-- never to be seen again lol

To answer your question, I would do straight sets of 5x5 on everything and add 5lbs every week. On your deadlifts, start off by just ramping up to one heavy set for awhile and beating your number by 5-10 lbs every week. Ramp to one set for your cleans as well. Focus on technique, speed, and power on everything. Your reps should look sexy.

Start your numbers light tomorrow and work up from there. Make it so in about 4 weeks you're really pushing challenging weights then (at the 4 week mark). In the mean time, work on clean, fast and pristine forceful reps (not grinders) using a weight that is somewhat challenging, but not insane. This will give your body, nervous system, and whatever else time to adapt and you will get the most out of this training over the long haul. You don't want to start off shitty.

isdatnutty 2015-03-24 17:51:32 UTC #10

Evolv wrote:
You are very much welcome dude. Thank you for taking the time to thank me. A lot of times, members here will give really good advice to someone and it is like it just disappears in the internet cosmos-- never to be seen again lol

To answer your question, I would do straight sets of 5x5 on everything and add 5lbs every week. On your deadlifts, start off by just ramping up to one heavy set for awhile and beating your number by 5-10 lbs every week. Ramp to one set for your cleans as well. Focus on technique, speed, and power on everything. Your reps should look sexy.

Start your numbers light tomorrow and work up from there. Make it so in about 4 weeks you're really pushing challenging weights then (at the 4 week mark). In the mean time, work on clean, fast and pristine forceful reps (not grinders) using a weight that is somewhat challenging, but not insane. This will give your body, nervous system, and whatever else time to adapt and you will get the most out of this training over the long haul. You don't want to start off shitty.

Yup thanks man! So I'm thinking this will be my starting weights for this week:

Front Squat 135
OHP 95
Barbell Row 115
Pendlay Row 135
Deadlift 245 (1x5 top set)
Power Clean 95
Farmers Walk 225 (Trap bar)

I'll keep a one year log of this. No more looking at workouts or any forums until one year from tomorrow!

Evolv 2015-03-24 18:06:48 UTC #11

Cool man. In about 4-6 months, you'll more than likely hit a frustrating wall. Just back off your weights and restart by ramping back up for another 4 week period like you're doing now. If that doesn't work after a couple months-- look into a program called Madcow 5x5. Do that and still apply everything we have talked about. That should get you close to a year of training. I have a training log on here, so you are welcome to pop in there and holler at me:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/evolvs_strength_log?pageNo=15#bottom

Also, check out some of the other members logs on here too in the "Training Logs" section. There are some really strong lifters on here that could lend you some good advice or different philosophy on training to help broaden your learning. You might even consider starting a log too so folks can chime in on your stuff.

isdatnutty 2015-03-25 15:11:23 UTC #12

Thanks man. I'll definitely look into that and those logs. Yo, so I had one more question for you before I get started today. Currently I've been eating at a deficit to help me get drop this bf% quickly. Won't I just stall quickly doing 5x5 straight sets? I have about 10-15 lbs of fat (@ 160 lbs) I probably need to lose to get my abs to show. Then I can start a clean bulk I'm guessing.

For long term progress should the program maybe look like this until I'm ready to bulk (listed as working sets)?

MONDAY
Front Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
BB Row 4x5
Dips 3xF
Leg Raises 4x12

WEDNESDAY
Power Cleans 5x3 (ramped to top set)
Deadlift 3x5 (ramped to top set)
Front Squat 3x5 (Light)
Pull Ups 4xF
Farmers Carries 4xMaxWeight (25 yards)

FRIDAY
Front Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Pendlay Row 4x5
Dips 3xF
Ab Roller 4x12

Evolv 2015-03-25 21:17:40 UTC #13

Man, I personally would not recommend lifting on a calorie deficit at 160 lbs and given your goals. You need to build muscle and you need to feed your body so it can become better. Just eat a well balanced diet consisting of mainly whole foods so you can perform well.

If you eat well, get stronger, build muscle, train to be athletic... you will look good. If you wanted to add some conditioning type work to help with body composition or to help keep your metabolism burning-- that would be a great idea... but I really wouldn't go into a calorie deficit. If anything, I would recommend eating in a slight calorie surplus. If you wanted to do conditioning I am a big fan of hill sprints, just sprinting in general (40meters to 400 meters), and the like. I sprint myself whenever I want to look better and honestly just feel better, I do them 2-3 times per week. If you like to run distance, fuck it, go run distance. One of the guys I train with benches 330 at 165 pounds and runs 5 miles 4 days a week.

Now this is all strictly my opinion, and you are free to do what you want. Everybody has their own thing of course. Unless you are 20%+ body fat or a competitor in something,-- I think most people will tell you the same thing. Everybody is different of course-- that is just my two cents.

For the next year, I think you should: Get strong, build muscle, do conditioning if needed, don't eat crap but eat very well-- reevaluate in 2016. Keep it simple man.

isdatnutty 2015-03-25 21:43:34 UTC #14

Evolv wrote:
Man, I personally would not recommend lifting on a calorie deficit at 160 lbs and given your goals. You need to build muscle and you need to feed your body so it can become better. Just eat a well balanced diet consisting of mainly whole foods so you can perform well.

If you eat well, get stronger, build muscle, train to be athletic... you will look good. If you wanted to add some conditioning type work to help with body composition or to help keep your metabolism burning-- that would be a great idea... but I really wouldn't go into a calorie deficit. If anything, I would recommend eating in a slight calorie surplus. If you wanted to do conditioning I am a big fan of hill sprints, just sprinting in general (40meters to 400 meters), and the like. I sprint myself whenever I want to look better and honestly just feel better, I do them 2-3 times per week. If you like to run distance, fuck it, go run distance. One of the guys I train with benches 330 at 165 pounds and runs 5 miles 4 days a week.

Now this is all strictly my opinion, and you are free to do what you want. Everybody has their own thing of course. Unless you are 20%+ body fat or a competitor in something,-- I think most people will tell you the same thing. Everybody is different of course-- that is just my two cents.

For the next year, I think you should: Get strong, build muscle, do conditioning if needed, don't eat crap but eat very well-- reevaluate in 2016. Keep it simple man.

Sounds good man! I REALLY do appreciate all the advice. I'm gonna basically eat VERY healthy (I don't mind eating a lot), lift hard, and keep up with the conditioning. My conditioning SUCKS so I'll definitely do that in my off days. I'm excited to get this next whole year going. I won't switch anything up. Once I stall 3x on a lift, I'll deload and build back up, but if I'm still stuck, I'll drop the 5x5 to a 3x5 to keep gains going.

Once again man, thanks for the help. I just needed one person to help me get my head on straight. You know there SO much information online and this past 1.5 years I know I wasted how I should be attacking the workouts, but through that I got a better understanding of what I was looking for and how my body responds to things. So now I'm ready to get this crackin. I know if I stick to this workout and do what you said, my body will look 100% different 1 year from now. Shit it'll probably look super different 3 months from now lol. Thanks again brotha, I'll start a log soon online so others can see what I'm doing too!