T Nation

Waiting for PCT?

hi guys, about to start a cycle of 500 test.e/week, 10 mg dbol/day, 50 deca/week.

The reason been that I am noob, don’t want to risk health but I want to reap the benefits from deca in joints and on bones from dbol but getting most of the size from test, and also been cheap af.

My question is: why waiting for the pct? In my experience in trt, I have done for instance a month using test very low dose (enough to shut down I guess but not to replace) but as I was taking clomid, the testicles kept going (lh amd lfh high in bloodwork meanwhile). I have experienced this a few times more and for what I see, the time to wait is bro science repeated as dogma. The axis is not an on/off switch, if you finish your cycle, and the next day you start with clomid, this drug will interfere in the hypothalamus by blocking estrogen AND therefore producing endo test, not taking into account what exogenous test you are running meanwhile. That’s just my experience, thoughts?.

If you’re on trt then pct is not even part of the equation.

I know, if you read again, you will realize that that is not the question not the answer I was looking for, regards

Yes Clomid will help produce endogenous test. But it’s action as an estrogen antagonist is what makes it effective. It’s not telling your body to start production, it’s simply competing with estrogen at receptor sites which means more test production is stimulated, put simply.
Your body will not produce test naturally if it interprets that you have sufficient levels and once shut down, takes time to start up again, if at all.
I suppose you could take clomid or nolvadex for the 4 weeks that the exo test clears but you’d still need to do the following 4/5 weeks to restart Natural production. Seems a waste and inefficient in my opinion. What not just use the bridge period to stay anabolic with short esters or orals or HCG and restart efficiently thereafter.

Thanks for replying man, that is what I meant, and sounds legit, but that is the thing I don’t agree because I have experienced otherwise: if you have exogenous test, with clomid you keep producing more test, that’s a fact, not waiting to start the pct will reduce time to recover imo

True. But you don’t have more test because your body is producing it naturally at HTPA level. You have more because of the Estrogen antagonism at receptor level which allows more LH and FSH release thereby stimulating testosterone. So the mechanism is different to producing naturally. essentially you’re “waking your system up” to produce naturally by forcing it. But if there’s still exo test, it won’t wake up.
I think I understand your point but my issue with this would be if you stopped clomid after 3 or 4 weeks I’m not sure your body would continue the process itself due to the exo test still in circulation. I’d also be personally concerned about clomid sides at 40/50mgs per day for 6-8 weeks, which dose is what I used in PCT.
it’s an interesting discussion though.

Your reasoning sounds totally logical yes. That is the quid of the question: does a “forced” htpa working makes it easier and faster to work non forced when the exo test disappears? By the way, what you say about the extended period of time of clomid is interesting, imo, it has no long term sides apart from rising SHBG, but taking it simultaneously with tamox with make up for that.
PS: I have just saw your bio and you are almost my size, what trt dosage are you doing man? everyone I know keeps taking about the 100-200 mg/week but haven’t still figured out how size affects the dosage.

Thanks for replying

I think the longer studies on clomid are all in relation to hormone therapy and at smaller doses than what I’d use for a PCT restart, but might be wrong, I haven’t really looked into clomid much recently as I don’t PCT anymore. I was wondering if it would offer the same benefits as HCG for atrophy on TRT though.
I’m currently on 75mg test cyp, MWF, so 225mg/week. I’ve been up as high as 250 and low as 100. I find 180 and 200mg/week are good for me but I’m seeing how this goes. So far it’s treating me well.

confirmed that clomid keep the balls going while on tests, at least on me :ok_hand:, your dosages seem reasonable to me, thanks again for replying man, take care

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