T Nation

Waco Biker Shootout


#1

Since I posted a video on a knife fight last week, I thought, I would follow up with
this short clip on the Waco Texas, biker shootout. The main reason for posting is to empathize, no matter what you do in life, have a tactical plan, whether going to the movies, grocery store, or some bar, It is your responsibility to defend your life and those that you are responsible for. Have a plan. Period.

I would like to assume that everyone who reads and follows the Combat Forum would have enough common sense to avoid any location that has an obvious presence of trash bikers (bikes parked out front), but, Let's say you and your better half have decided to go down to Twin Peaks for a burger and beer. You arrive in the parking lot about the time this going down, what are you going to do? GET OFF THE "X", or in civilian language, get the hell out of there.

What if the exit is blocked behind you? What then? You going to freeze or act? Is cover available? And not concealment, but cover that will stop a bullet? Did you scan the parking lot pulling in for trash dumpers? Anything that would protect you? Remember, untrained people with firearms usually shoot high, so, flat on the ground is a better option than nothing. What if you were inside the restaurant when they arrived? Leave immediately; there is nothing good going to come out of two rival trash gangs being at the same place.

As for this shooting itself, I watched it several times and even showed it to an Afghan MOI Colonel, who really did not know what was going on but could not understand why the police didn't just shoot all of them:))

  1. You will notice once the shooting started, most of them stood up to see what was happening, offering a fine, full target. One skilled CQB shooter would have taken 8 to 10 before they even realized what was going on.

  2. I especially liked the fact a lot of them were running and trying to jump over that flimsy rail, only to fall down and then STAND UP again to look around. Yep, highly trained urban warriors there. One thing I learned in combat the first day, God weeds out the stupid ones.

  3. Notice the idiot who draws his pistol and then assumes his best IPSC stance, trying to bend his fat frame and slide left along the floor, then right, then left, at least a few of the trash tried to crawl for at least 12 inches, before standing up into a crouch again.

  4. Notice the idiot who goes back inside and then pulls out a flimsy chair, like it was Captain Americaâ??s shield, what? to stop a bullet?

  5. Notice the idiot who was in the parking lot and starts a FIST FIGHT, in the middle of a gunfight. Yeah, ok.

  6. Notice no one seemed to know where the exits were, like most people with a gang mentality, they leave the thinking to someone else.

  7. Notice the waitresses were the only ones with any type of plan, they appeared to be hauling ass to the rear of the restaurant, which would offer better cover and an exit to the rear of the parking lot.

  8. Notice the weapons. Why? Observe the quality or lack of, and learn about your enemy, in case you find yourself in one these situations

  9. 9 trash bikers dead. Too bad it wasn't more.

Comments?


#2

ok, try again.

I cannot get the Youtube video to work. My apologies.


#3

Like the MOI Colonel you mentioned, I find it hard to see why the shooters weren’t dispatched of.

When you fire a weapon into a building which contains innocent people, surely you surrender your rights as an innocent civilian? Surely the police and swat team would not have had to explain picking of those firing their weapons?

Also, as you mentioned Idaho, these tough guys heard the commotion, they stood vertical for a better vantage point.
In school they used to say "Curiosity killed the Cat."
I’m shocked at how many guys hung around the restaurant front just to see what happened, when they could have been retreating to safety or to a different location to maneuver from. Even children would have known to get behind something big and solid and actively look for an escape route.

These were untrained idiots; overgrown (and overweight) boys playing with grown-up toys. Acting like a tough guy in front of their buddies, I’m amazed there weren’t far more killed.


#4

As far as why the police didn’t shoot the shooters it probably comes down to their leadership not wanting to make that call.


#5

Heh. Follow the waitresses. For multiple reasons.

Thanks for the link, Idaho. It has been said many times, in this thread included, that visualising potential solutions to sticky situations leads to great effectiveness and could mean the difference between staying alive and ending up dead/injured. Whilst I’ve never been in anything akin to an O.K. Corral gun slinging bonanza, I can attest that such mental exercises make a world of difference in keeping calm and finding the best possible solution.


#6
  1. Fat fuck pulls his HiPoint (I assume) and proceeds to sweep all his fuckin buddies like there’s no tomorrow. He’s so goddamn jittery I’m amazed he doesn’t accidentally drop one of them.

  2. That idiot that runs back inside definitely shat his pants properly and even looks like he’s begging for his miserable life when his mate blindly fires his sidearm.

  3. Those waitresses probably lived in fear of a shoot out or something like this every day they worked at that bar. They probably ORM like crazy without even realizing it and they made good automatic decisions to high tail it out the fire exit.

  4. Hi Points galore. I want to flash steel, but don’t know anything of value about guns. Hi Point baby!

All these things just show you that looking and acting tough does not prepare you to act under pressure. I would be curious to know how many of these guys died from friendly fire. That Cossack leader sure cleans up nicely for the cameras but remains a shitbag.


#7

" I find it hard to see why the shooters weren’t dispatched of" and “it probably comes down to their leadership not wanting to make that call.”

It likely had to do with the individual officers/deputies ability with the weapon system they had at that moment. There would have been a very dynamic background and foreground of victims/bystanders so there may not have been shots that the individuals were confident in taking. There were effective shots taken by officers on-scene. Given the overhead pictures of the scene and the video showing mass chaos, the shots were most likely taken from the perimeter by officers armed with rifles. Of course, I do not have copies of the reports nor have I been debriefed so that is merely an educated guess from training and experience.

As to the leadership comment, I doubt it. This was not a hostage/barricade situation with a sniper element deployed with ROE’s on a command shot waiting for the clearance. It was a multiple active shooter situation. Current training doctrine has a very different approach.