2 things JTF.
What’s the government’s motive for gaining all this leverage over it’s people. Why would politicians on both the left and right get together, keep secrets, kill people?
With all the people involved in our government, politicians, law enforcement, etc, how come no one credible has come through. Is every politician holding every office this corrupt?
I can understand skepticism, but this is far beyond that.
If the Clinton administration blew up the federal building in OKC to consolidate its power, why isn’t he president anymore? Why would he do this and then step down when his term was over? Or was it the Islamic connection? That is another popular theory.
Is there a shadow government really running the show? Is it the Illuminati?
The whole thing is silly. The blast pattern was not symmetrical because the truck was not parked in the center of the building. That explains one reason the good general is skeptical.
The generals point that a building cannot be brought down by a truck bomb parked in front is correct. The building was not brought down. The face was blown off but the structure is still standing.
So the generals 2 main points have been easily discredited.
The good general appears to be a bit of a loon. He still maintains that TWA800 was shot down by 2 missles launched from an Iranian submarine.
They fished that whole fucking plane out of the water, put it back together and found an electrical problem. It was not shot down.
Our government would have loved to blame the Iranians (or any other Islamo-Terrorist group) for this.
Lets get it all straight.
This is what I have gatherd from the web tonight.
OKC: McVeigh worked with the Islamics to blow it up. Government coverup to hide the Islamic connection.
TWA800: Islamic terrorist shot it down. Government covers it up and blames an electrical problem.
9/11: Government, working with the Zionists blow up WTC and Pentagon. Government covers it up and blames Islamic terrorists.
Why does the government cover up the Islamic terrorists connections for some of these actions and falsely blame them for others.
You conspiracy nuts must be smarter than I am because I cannot figure it out.
maybe at somepoint between points 2 and 3 they turned their backs on us?
I have no idea, just speculating.
I am not a “don’t believe anything” kind of guy, but im also not a “believe everything”
In my experience, most people who believe these jackass conspiricy theories have a paranoia problem that can be helped greatly with the proper medication.
I have a brother who is manic/d and he believes everything he hears on “coast to coast”, the late night radio show that features the weird and paranormal type of stuff. My brother swears that our government bombed the pentagon and flew the jets into the twin towers. No amount of rational discussion can change his mind. We are trying to get him on meds…
[quote]doogie wrote:
Are there any actual television clips of this? I’d like to see which reporters were reporting it. [/quote]
yes a compilation of all of these television clips is shown in Alex Jones’s “911: the road to tyranny” documentary. and your opinion of Alex Jones and his ideas (i dont particularly like him) does nothing to lessen the veracity of the evidence from these clips". The documentary can be downloaded here: http://www.archive.org/download/911theRoadtoTyranny/911theroadtotyranny.wmv (245MB)
now i certainly dont agree with a lot of what this guy says, and sometimes he seems a bit nutty, but the oklahoma news report footage is all there.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
The almost undisputed fact is the official story is made up. Why do YOU think they would do that?
[/quote]
I really have no clue, and somehow I doubt you do either. Maybe if some of your theories were a little more complete you wouldn’t be regarded at such a nutcase.
‘The government had a hand in the OKC bombings’
‘Why?’
‘So they could get more control over us’
‘Why?’
‘Cause they, uh…like to control us.’
I think you might be overestimating the ‘evilness’ of your government.
Remember when George H.W. Bush had his “affair” in the White House? Well his love child flew to Baghdad and put saddam into a trance. It was like Damien Omen. saddam decided to fund tim “burn in hell” mcveigh. This really woke people up to the dangers of domestic terrorism. saddam put the child up in the Baghdad Hilton. He would routinely tell saddam to fund terrorists. The child also encouraged saddam to try to assassinate his father. Then he would encourage firing on our planes. The child’s M.O. was directed at getting enough people angry so that W. could “trump up” an excuse to invade. Then GEORGE W. BUSH could win a Second Term!!!
Revenge is sweet!!!
JeffR
Check out www.rense.com lots of “info” regarding conspiracy theories etc.
Lots of crap on that site aswell but a few gems.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Remember when George H.W. Bush had his “affair” in the White House? Well his love child flew to Baghdad and put saddam into a trance. It was like Damien Omen. saddam decided to fund tim “burn in hell” mcveigh. This really woke people up to the dangers of domestic terrorism. saddam put the child up in the Baghdad Hilton. He would routinely tell saddam to fund terrorists. The child also encouraged saddam to try to assassinate his father. Then he would encourage firing on our planes. The child’s M.O. was directed at getting enough people angry so that W. could “trump up” an excuse to invade. Then GEORGE W. BUSH could win a Second Term!!!
Revenge is sweet!!!
JeffR[/quote]
LMAO
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I’m proud to say I don’t think like you.
That’s great, then you can help me!
As you can tell I’m not too bright, I need someone with your wisdom and intellect to help explain to me what they’re talking about in the clip.
I mean, didn’t the ONE truck bomb already go off? They’re talking about 3 and 4 bombs still INSIDE the building. Now how would McVeigh and Nichols get those into the federal building? Maybe it was someone else! Wait no, it couldn’t have been because they were the only two involved.
Arrrrgh dammit, I give up! It’s no use, your just going to have to explain it to me.
(btw, try and dumb it down for me a little, don’t use a lotta big words and stuff)
[/quote]
You say all this like it is fact while it is actually crap. You are an alarmist who can not handle Capitalism and all the riches, spoils and issues that go with it. You need to move to Europe…no France and join all the bitchers and fascists there and you won’t feel so out of place here. Anti-logic is what you stand for and I wish I COULD dumb it down for you. You really do need it that way don’t you?
Funny, I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but at the same time, you need to have a better reason to trust someone other than the fact that they are decent human beings.
Go look throughout history. Blind faith and follwership is incredibly dangerous and is almost always seriously abused by those in power.
If you really feel this stuff is loony, I wish you’d come up with more than insults towards JTF. Instead, you give expressions of faith in government and authority – the very thing that concerns conspiracy nuts in the first place.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Funny, I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but at the same time, you need to have a better reason to trust someone other than the fact that they are decent human beings.
Go look throughout history. Blind faith and follwership is incredibly dangerous and is almost always seriously abused by those in power.
If you really feel this stuff is loony, I wish you’d come up with more than insults towards JTF. Instead, you give expressions of faith in government and authority – the very thing that concerns conspiracy nuts in the first place.[/quote]
Well for fuck’s sake vroom - go sit under a tree and think about it. Please either do that or shut the fuck up. Did you have a big-assed soy-latte this morning while reading the Globe and Mail?
It damn sure sounds like it.
[quote]vroom wrote:
If you really feel this stuff is loony, I wish you’d come up with more than insults towards JTF. Instead, you give expressions of faith in government and authority – the very thing that concerns conspiracy nuts in the first place.[/quote]
not necessary, besides that’s not even what’s happened.
the necessity is on JTF to show his theories to have merit. if he doesn’t then we can all cluck like chickens and we’d still be right. but that’s not what’s happened. JTF has given little evidence (zero emphatic evidence) of his theories, but the replies have consisted of more than insults. they’ve consisted of questions attempting to find the truth, the rationale behind JTF’s theories.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Funny, I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but at the same time, you need to have a better reason to trust someone other than the fact that they are decent human beings.
[/quote]
likewise, a better reason to distrust a human being other than one’s thoughts about his indecency are requisite.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Go look throughout history. Blind faith and follwership is incredibly dangerous and is almost always seriously abused by those in power.[/quote]
if the shoe fits, vroom. is JTF somehow not the only blind one among us. perhaps we’re not so blind, and we’ve decided to put trust in the powers that now be.
besides, when you’re looking throughout history for the abusers of power, be sure to look for the ones that didn’t abuse their power as well.
wufwugy, slow down man. I’m not saying all that much… just trying to help people get past the knee-jerk reaction and issue blind rejections.
–
Rainjack, what is your problem big guy? You know I don’t give a rats ass whether you like me or my posts. Why do you continue to piss and moan like a girl about my posts?
We read your drivel, you can read mine…
I reject JTF blindly and with sound mind as well.
vroom,
i really dont wanna see “wacko conspiracies” go without keen interrogation. they may be true, but since they’re so “wacko” they require deep prodding. i also dont wanna see any strawmanning.
i have an ulterior motive for involving myself with this thread. i actually wanna see if JTF or others can defend his or their beliefs because i dont wanna be “blind” like they claim the public is. so my repsonses to your post are for serving that purpose.
ive noticed that you tend to favor generalities and ambiguities (i dig that, actually), but i dont want those to cloud the issues.
now ive asked a simple compound question of JTF and i hope it doesn’t go unanswered because of my desire to know if his conspiracies are indeed wacko.
P.S. vroom, i always enjoy your posts. especially when they get RJ to ask you about soy lattes.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Let’s speed right down to this little gem:
it’s a way to control the masses.
Exactly how would the government be “controlling the masses” by blowing up one of it’s own buildings? Also, since that time how has the government gained further control over us?
[/quote]
There are hundreds of examples that the government is trying to control every aspect of our lives. Terror events like OKC, whether real or staged, are used to scare people into believing they need to give up certain freedoms in exchange for safety. Most people are OK with that because, like you, they’re a law abiding citizen who goes to work everyday and comes home, goes to the gym - nothing has seemly changed. Not to mention the major dollars that go to defense and security programs for “improved security”.
Your satisfied because - only “terrorists” have lost their constitutional rights; only “terrorists” are jailed indefinitely without trial; only “terrorists” are tortured. You can easily scoff at mention of the erosion of our rights and freedoms because - a) it hasn’t affected you personally; b) the radical right has you convinced the erosion of civil liberties is strictly a “liberal fairy tale” because after all, “it hasn’t affected you personally”; c) since you would be utterly convinced it’s just a liberal fairy tale, there would be no reason to take any news to the contrary seriously; d) because of increasing government secrecy, bills and laws are being passed most people won’t even know about until it’s too late. Just like 99% of the people on this forum didn’t or don’t even realize the Codex guidelines regarding regulation of vitamins and supplements are part of CAFTA. Codex is the ultimate control over people like us who require supplements for maximum recovery.
I base “b” and “c” on the fact that I actually listen to Limbaugh and Hannity and FOX occasionally. The only time they ever talk about civil liberties is when they’re telling you how the liberals are always whining about them (because liberals want the terrorists to win). The problem is that, it is starting to affect regular people and it’s not just a silly liberal fantasy. The following story could happen to anybody, Republican or liberal Democrat.
Who’s Watching the Watch List?
“I’m embarrassed that it took my own ox being gored for me to see the threat posed by the Administration’s current restricting of civil liberties. I’m being accused of a serious–even treasonous–criminal intent by a faceless bureaucracy, with no opportunity (that I can find) to refute any errors or false charges.”
“My name is on a list of real and suspected enemies of the state and I can’t find out what I’m accused of or why, let alone defend myself. And I’m guilty, says my government, not just until proven innocent or a victim of mistaken identity–but forever.”
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/23362
As far as control, here are just a few random examples of what’s already here and what’s coming. I don’t know about you but I’m smart enough to know to wear my seatbelt, I don’t need to be stopped at a checkpoint so they can see if I have it on. “Seatbelt checkpoint” - may I see your papers please.
Buckle Boondoggle - “Click It Or Ticket”
A cop stops you at a checkpoint. The officer peers inside. What’s he looking for? A kidnapper? A terrorist? This week, chances are good the officer is looking for a less frightening perpetrator–the unbuckled motorist.
High court OKs personal property seizures
WASHINGTON (AP) – The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that local governments may seize people’s homes and businesses – even against their will – for private economic development.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/scotus.property.ap/index.html
Defending America’s Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005" (H.R. 1528)
If you “witness” certain drug offenses taking place or “learn” that they took place you would have to report the offense to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide “full assistance” in the investigation, apprehension, and prosecution of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory two year prison sentence.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/051805sensen.cfm
Montana Police Have to Stop One Vehicle an Hour
A new policy requires state troopers to stop at least one vehicle an hour, whether the driver has done anything wrong or not.
http://www.news10.net/storyfull10.asp?id=11889
Forget cameras - spy device will cut drivers - speed by satellite
The satellite-based system will monitor the speed limit and apply the brakes or cut out the accelerator if the driver tries to exceed it. A government-funded trial has concluded that the scheme promotes safer driving.
Fines: Rise of the stealth speed cameras
I told you why I think they would - it’s still mostly my opinion. The thing is I wasn’t even asking WHY - the consensus is that conspiracy theories are paranoid delusions that are beyond the realm of possibilities, for no other reason than “this is America”.
I find it rather telling that people can hear absolute, blatant evidence that contradicts the official story of a single truck bomb - act like nothing is out of the ordinary, and then focus on MY motives.
[quote]Correct me if I’m wrong; arn’t you also the guy who defends liberalism on this forum? I may have you confused with someone else so forgive me if I’m wrong.
[/quote]
It depends on what you mean by “defend liberalism”. I’m not a liberal but I would defend someone’s right to have those viewpoints. I wouldn’t be allowed in their club anyway since I oppose gun control. Speaking of which, would you be willing to turn over your gun(s) (if you have any) to the government if they declared martial law?
You can’t make this stuff up folks -
A company was hired to simulate a mock terrorist attack in the London subway as a terrorism drill at the EXACT same PLACES and TIME that the “REAL” bombs went off…
This is a clip of the head of the company explaining this amazing “coincidence”.
http://www.terrorize.dk/misc/london/london.terror.games.wmv
What else could… Oh no, not this too. Gee willickers, can’t they catch a break?
EXCLUSIVE: THE HUNT
But the investigation received a serious setback when it was discovered the CCTV cameras on the bus that blew up were not working so detectives will not get vital images of the bomber.
One senior Yard source said: "It’s a big blow and a disappointment. If the cameras had been running we would have had pin-sharp close-up pictures of the person who carried out this atrocity.
“We don’t know if the driver forgot to switch them on or if there was a technical problem but there are no images.”
The bus had four cameras - one covering people getting on, the second at the exit doors and one on each deck scanning the length of the vehicle.
It’s a good thing our governments don’t do these things or this could really seem suspicious…