T Nation

VP Debate: 10/11/2012

“Killer Joe” and Ryan tonight. (Thurs: 10/11/2012)

(I was at the computer, and decided to get the thread started).

Should be interesting.

Mufasa

Will be honest… I might watch football if the first 15 mins don’t contain some sort of verbal brawl.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Will be honest… I might watch football if the first 15 mins don’t contain some sort of verbal brawl.[/quote]

Lol.

CNN reported President Obama was at the moderators wedding or maybe vice versa (can’t remember it was during lunch). Does anyone else think that’s odd?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
CNN reported President Obama was at the moderators wedding or maybe vice versa (can’t remember it was during lunch). Does anyone else think that’s odd? [/quote]
It was in 91 and since I’ve always felt the media is biased anyway I take the news with a grain of salt. I just want to see the potty mouthed plagiarist self proclaimed smartest man get destroyed by Paul Ryan

My prediction is that Biden has been informed to cut loose, come out swinging, and he will. Ryan will be more likeable, sunny in his systematic destruction of the Obama/Biden record.

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
CNN reported President Obama was at the moderators wedding or maybe vice versa (can’t remember it was during lunch). Does anyone else think that’s odd? [/quote]
It was in 91 and since I’ve always felt the media is biased anyway I take the news with a grain of salt. I just want to see the potty mouthed plagiarist self proclaimed smartest man get destroyed by Paul Ryan[/quote]

I think people tend to forget that Biden was a long-time member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Ryan would be well advised to be cautious during the Foreign Policy segments. However, on the domestic issues I think he enjoys a slight edge over the VP.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
My prediction is that Biden has been informed to cut loose, come out swinging, and he will. Ryan will be more likeable, sunny in his systematic destruction of the Obama/Biden record. [/quote]

Besides attempting to politically capitalize on the recent events in Libya, he’ll have a difficult time doing that in the Foreign Policy segments.

http://www.cfr.org/us-election-2012/man-plan/p28950

[quote]Sloth wrote:

My prediction is that Biden has been informed to cut loose, come out swinging, and he will. Ryan will be more likeable, sunny in his systematic destruction of the Obama/Biden record. [/quote]

Agreed. I bet Ryan won’t be in much of an attack-dog mode. There’s no reason to. And, all that does is play to the base, which, maybe that is how Obama plans to win the election (baselings turnout), but I think that nastiness backfires with moderates and independents.

Biden, though, has no choice. He has to be aggressive. I think this is a mistake, but the Left has made it clear he has no option but to attack.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Biden, though, has no choice. He has to be aggressive. I think this is a mistake, but the Left has made it clear he has no option but to attack.[/quote]

I’ve read reports Team O has asked to have social issues brought up. I imagine this is so Joe can wax on about how awesome abortion is, because I believe Ryan is a no exceptions kind of guy.

I’m looking for hard line “you’re lying” attacks and very outspoken Biden tonight, hammering talking points about the war on women and tax cuts.

All Ryan needs is a tie, and to appeal to independants. Doesn’t need a homerun, just a seeing eye single.

I recall reading earlier that in the 2008 VP debate, Joe Biden tended to be loose with facts when it came for foreign affairs. He wasn’t called on it though, during the debate.

Should be interesting if the same happens with Paul Ryan. Ryan seems to have a very good memory, and I would guess more likely to call out mistruths.

“Obama on what Biden needs to do to win tonight?s debate: Joe just needs to be Joe”

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
CNN reported President Obama was at the moderators wedding or maybe vice versa (can’t remember it was during lunch). Does anyone else think that’s odd? [/quote]
It was in 91 and since I’ve always felt the media is biased anyway I take the news with a grain of salt. I just want to see the potty mouthed plagiarist self proclaimed smartest man get destroyed by Paul Ryan[/quote]

I think people tend to forget that Biden was a long-time member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Ryan would be well advised to be cautious during the Foreign Policy segments. However, on the domestic issues I think he enjoys a slight edge over the VP. [/quote]
People also forget he wrote the core of the patriot act in 1995, he also was in bigger stronger faster and sounded less intelligent than a drunk with a concussion so we shall see what gaffe man says at this debate

I want to be the moderator, and fuck this “keep the peace shit.”

I want to see a Battle Royale.

“Biden, Ryan, you guys get 90 minutes to rip each other’s heads off…, ready, set, go !”

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

All Ryan needs is a tie, and to appeal to independants. Doesn’t need a homerun, just a seeing eye single.[/quote]

Agreed, and I don’t think it is a great idea for Obama/Biden to inflame social issues, as much as they might want to. With the momentum shift, and the resonance of Romney’s message and the fact that polls overwhelmingly show that economic issues are the pressing issue, inflaming social issues just gives Ryan (and Romney) another chance to highlight how Obama/Biden can’t focus on the real issues.

Prior to the first debate, “inflammation” might have been a more useful strategy. Not so anymore, I don’t think.

If Ryan can sound sharp on fiscal matters and remain a little above the fray, I think that is all he needs to do.

If Biden delivers an A+ debate, I suppose that is good, but I’m never convinced that the VP should outshine the top of the ticket, and Democrats better be careful what they wish for.

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]kevinm1 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
CNN reported President Obama was at the moderators wedding or maybe vice versa (can’t remember it was during lunch). Does anyone else think that’s odd? [/quote]
It was in 91 and since I’ve always felt the media is biased anyway I take the news with a grain of salt. I just want to see the potty mouthed plagiarist self proclaimed smartest man get destroyed by Paul Ryan[/quote]

I think people tend to forget that Biden was a long-time member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. Ryan would be well advised to be cautious during the Foreign Policy segments. However, on the domestic issues I think he enjoys a slight edge over the VP. [/quote]
People also forget he wrote the core of the patriot act in 1995, he also was in bigger stronger faster and sounded less intelligent than a drunk with a concussion so we shall see what gaffe man says at this debate
[/quote]

So Republicans should have at least a crush on the architect of that benevolent piece of legislation? Honestly, I’m a Democrat and if Romney wins I hope he’s the best goddamn president in my life time. I for one put my country ahead of my party. Not saying that you don’t but the same can’t be said for some.

Biden needs to hit Ryan hard on his disdain for big compound lifts and his refusal to eat enough to get huge:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/know-political-meme-paul-ryan-biceps-155445161--politics.html

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Biden needs to hit Ryan hard on his disdain for big compound lifts and his refusal to eat enough to get huge:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/know-political-meme-paul-ryan-biceps-155445161--politics.html
[/quote]

Lmao! Clearly the man is a SRC. Is that the kind of example we want to set for our children?

Biden will be the rabid attack dog tonight trying to make up for what his leader could not do. Ryan should stay on his toes and attack not Biden but Obama for being an ineffective President. God knows there is ample proof he only need to recite the facts. If they each do what they’re supposed to do this should be a draw. If one actually injures the other it may get some traction. Especially if Biden drops the kid. The MSLM will say “Uncle Joe Evens The Score” trying to raise Obama’s numbers. I doubt Ryan will fall for it but it’s possible…he’s young to be in such a position. Other than that I doubt any of this will matter that much by Monday morning.

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[quote]ZEB wrote:
Biden will be the rabid attack dog tonight trying to make up for what his leader could not do. Ryan should stay on his toes and attack not Biden but Obama for being an ineffective President. God knows there is ample proof he only need to recite the facts. If they each do what they’re supposed to do this should be a draw. If one actually injures the other it may get some traction. Especially if Biden drops the kid. The MSLM will say “Uncle Joe Evens The Score” trying to raise Obama’s numbers. I doubt Ryan will fall for it but it’s possible…he’s young to be in such a position. Other than that I doubt any of this will matter that much by Monday morning.[/quote]

That’s about my sense as well. I don’t know if Biden goes full-on rabid though–I think he may sense that might not be the smartest way to appeal to the voters, but he will definitely be on the attack. I admit that I am pretty nervous about this debate precisely because Ryan is so young in this position. He’s smart, he knows the policy, he knows the budget…but can he stay poised and balanced on the podium without leaving openings for attacks to gain traction?

If he CAN, I think he stomps Biden. But I don’t think he’ll remain poised perfectly precisely because he’s young. That said I have no reason to believe he’ll be the walking target that Palin was in 08.