T Nation

Volume of Training for Growth


#1

Jim,

I've been training for 5+ years and have always found it very had to gain size. anyway i posted up in on of the sections of the forum here on my training/diet and the guys tore me a new one and said that i should follow one of the established programs, like 5/3/1.

So i dug up your original 5/3/1 article and am keen to give it a crack.

One thing that i found really interesting is that the overall volume (4 days per week training / number of sets) seems quite low.

Do you think guys like me, who struggle gaining size even with high volume, are still suited to this technique?

I'm ~85kg @ ~17%BF and have just upped cals from 3500 to 4000 per day. Thanks


#2

[quote]Mantra46 wrote:
Jim,

I’ve been training for 5+ years and have always found it very had to gain size. anyway i posted up in on of the sections of the forum here on my training/diet and the guys tore me a new one and said that i should follow one of the established programs, like 5/3/1.

So i dug up your original 5/3/1 article and am keen to give it a crack.

One thing that i found really interesting is that the overall volume (4 days per week training / number of sets) seems quite low.

Do you think guys like me, who struggle gaining size even with high volume, are still suited to this technique?

I’m ~85kg @ ~17%BF and have just upped cals from 3500 to 4000 per day. Thanks
[/quote]

You seem to be a copy of myself, and ive made similar threads, stop thinking that this problem is “low volume and therefor youre not gonna grow”, did you buy 531 or beyond 531 book?

Anyway if you read threads that ive made here, i think youre gonna get many answers, since i have been asking the same thing basically, and have the same problem as you.
We even eat the same amount of cals and weight the same :p.


#3

I recommend simplicity, from what ive read, BBB 3 month Challenge :slight_smile:


#4

5 years of training isn’t very long - I weighed as much as you do now after years and years of training. It takes quite awhile for some people and that’s just the way it is. While BBB seems like a good option, it isn’t always the answer. Eating consistently and training consistently - that is how things happen. Honestly, I’d recommend doing what I did and forget about how big you want to be and just train hard and eat big. Let the chips fall where they may - and the surprising thing is when you eat and train for performance, YOU fall into place. Wherever that may be.

Concentrate on getting better each year - that attitude is how I made the best gains of my life. Take the pressure off “TODAY! NOW!” and embrace the small victories of performance every week/month. A year goes by and all that small progress ads up. Too many people look at volume as the answer. The answer is RECOVERY. You don’t grow if you don’t recover.


#5

I agree Jim, and i guess thats where the mindset have to be, its just frustrating when ppl around you dont even know what theyre doing and eating whatever crap, and keep gaining, cause they won the genetic lottery.

But yeah absolutely, gotta look at the long run


#6

[quote]box4m wrote:
I agree Jim, and i guess thats where the mindset have to be, its just frustrating when ppl around you dont even know what theyre doing and eating whatever crap, and keep gaining, cause they won the genetic lottery.

But yeah absolutely, gotta look at the long run[/quote]

Life isn’t fair - work harder, work smarter. I don’t know how seeing people get better/genetic lottery could possibly depress you. It should motivate you to achieve greater. To use that as a springboard. Makes no sense to me.


#7

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
5 years of training isn’t very long - I weighed as much as you do now after years and years of training. It takes quite awhile for some people and that’s just the way it is. While BBB seems like a good option, it isn’t always the answer. Eating consistently and training consistently - that is how things happen. Honestly, I’d recommend doing what I did and forget about how big you want to be and just train hard and eat big. Let the chips fall where they may - and the surprising thing is when you eat and train for performance, YOU fall into place. Wherever that may be.

Concentrate on getting better each year - that attitude is how I made the best gains of my life. Take the pressure off “TODAY! NOW!” and embrace the small victories of performance every week/month. A year goes by and all that small progress ads up. Too many people look at volume as the answer. The answer is RECOVERY. You don’t grow if you don’t recover. [/quote]

What a great reply that wisdom only comes from years of training, even though i may not like what you say at times you do make a lot of sense it’s great that we’re lucky enough to have you on this forum :slight_smile:


#8

Jim - firstly thanks very much for taking the time to reply and share your knowledge with us, it is much appreciated.

What you are saying makes perfect sense so i will definitely give this approach a go.

So do you recommend the base 5/3/1 program with 4 days per week training to start off with? How long should i do this before i look at some of the more advanced programs - 6 months or a year? Also does 4000 cals seem reasonable?

Lastly, which one of your books would you recommend to start off on this sort of program based on your understanding of where i’m at?

Thanks again


#9

you’re thanking Jim for his reply and his time, and I believe you really intend to mean that, but you are so caught up in how many sets and reps and volume blah blah that you missed the advice Jim gave you, which in reality already answers these questions for you.

it doesn’t matter which of the many (MANY) 5/3/1 templates you choose, as long as they are actually written by Jim- which should be obvious based on where you find them. If written by Jim and not someone just scamming and/or misinterpreting his work, you can’t go wrong. Just find one that meets your schedule/time commitments and have at it. take the time to get your honest, current maxes, so you can start this thing right, then don’t max out for a couple years!

Not speaking for Jim, but if you have none of the books, buy them in the order that he wrote them. The original should keep you occupied for a while.

If that many calories isn’t putting weight on you, AND the high volume routines aren’t working for you…hmm, maybe high volume isn’t your answer. Maybe you’re in the gym doing too much bullshit, and burning a lot of the calories that you actually need to build something. As far as the # of calories goes, we all have a different metabolism- don’t worry about how many calories anyone else needs to grow. If you are eating a true 4000 calories a day, for weeks on end and not gaining any weight…guess what man- you need to try ~4500 for a bit and see what happens.


#10

Thanks for the feedback.
Am trying the plan suggested in the original 5/3/1 article, have been going for 3wks and really enjoying it, also got the 531 ebook so should make for good reading!!


#11

I don’t see how original is low volume? 5 sets of 12-15 on 2 accessory lifts alone is definitley not low volume!