T Nation

Vitex on Alpha Male on Off-Days?


Hi, I'm talking some Alpha Male on a 5/2 cycle, daily workouts alternating between boxing training and running. I'm really feeling like I get a flood of estrogen on the second off-day especially, and it's turning me into a suppurating vagina for a day or two, and that's awful.

I have some liquid extract of Vitex Agnus - I'm hoping to use this on off-days to prevent the estrogen from getting the better of me. Is this safe to do? Is there something else I can do on off-cycle days to keep me feeling amazing like I do when I'm ON-cycle? Anything I can do on ON-cycle days to prevent a buildup of Estrogen behind the floodgate of the vitex?

I'm also taking Receptormax off and on, more off than on last several days, because I really feel my T trop when I take it. After a few days it recovers a little, but I'm not feeling any stronger because of the supp, I'm not noticing a great increase in endurance, and I find it certainly robs me of some sexual vigor.

I DO notice that I recover a little quicker from workouts, and that it fends off fat like nobody's business, which is great - but I'm not sure its worth the sacrifice... Should I switch to a cinnamon-only supplement to prevent dropping my free-t but still keep the insulin-related benefits?


(edited to clarify post in title)


Seriously? Nobody has any advice as to whether it's safe to use Vitex when I'm not on AM? I searched for this and found nada... I'd much rather take a proper aromatase inhibitor of course, but I need to keep things legal and available.


Doesn't using Vitex on the off days somewhat defeat the purpose of cycling off TRIBEX?


Vitex is just an estrogen blocker - not a T-booster. I was under the impression that it was more important to cycle the Tribulus than the Vitex... but again, I was unsure, hence posting here before doing so. I just need to do SOMETHING because I keep getting hit with a goddamned flood of Estrogen on the off days, and it makes me feel like ass.


If you're worried take 100mg Zinc in the mornings on wake up.

Big Zinc dose will combat Aromatase in the AM when your Testosterone is the highest.

So you just 'feel' like your estrogen is up? Sensitive, puffy nipples?


You keep saying this. How do you know this is what's happening?


Because I feel all grouchy, sensitive, puffy, defensive, and my wang doesn't stay hard as well. I also get the overwhelming urge to watch "Fried Green Tomatoes" and cuddle with a teddy-bear. Just kidding with the last two, obviously. ...or was I?


Great idea on the Zinc... I always feel good when I take Zinc during the day. Taking it on wake is certainly worth a go!


The scientific side of my brain is dying to see a double blind study done with placebo to see what's really happening.


I obviously can't do a double-blind study on myself; all I can do is provide anecdotal information regarding how I feel. This still does not answer the question at hand.


Try the Zinc as suggested along with Rez-V and the Vitex in the morning on Alpha Male off days. I have used vitex every day for a month straight with no problems but I would suggest cycling off the vitex after 4 weeks of continuous use. If you are still having problems you need to get it checked out and you may need some estrogen modulation, even by pharmaceutical means. If you can get a hold of some it is very effective to add in Carbolin 19 on Alpha Male off days also.


Good call. Operative word with Carbolin 19 is IF. I can NEVER seem to order that stuff.... it's always out of stock. Resveratrol is a good idea too, maybe I also should start the day with a big glass of OJ so I get the bonus anti-aromatase activity from all that Vitamin C.


Careful! Taking zinc on a totally empty stomach first thing in the morning gives me major nausea! I'd take it with your breakfast (at least partway through breakfast, or at the end of breakfast) -- make sure there's at least some food in your stomach first.


This is 100% true as I too have found out the hard way - zinc with food ALWAYS.

Hey, Kids: If you're ever trying to get out of school for the day, I definitely did NOT tell you to take 100 MG zinc gluconate on an empty stomach, wait 'till you start feeling wrong, then eat something. Spew-city. Added bonuses for eating multi-colored breakfast cereal to add to the disgustingness of the vomit. Again, this is something you should never do. No-no, naughty-naughty, never-ever. ...enjoy that new PS3 game.