T Nation

Vitamin C and Milk fats

Two questions:

  1. I read in a norweegian mag yesterday that too much vitamin C can be very dangerous (among the other vitamins allso). Some study in leiscter (or how you spell it) in UK, showed that even 500mg of V.C could increase your chances for cancer. They also noted that the study were well critisized for not giving up the specifics of the study. And they recommended taking a maximum of 1000mg of V.C pr. day. I’ve read on this site that you take even 10 000 mg of V.C for improving recovery (From Poliquin i think). Is this bullshit? I’ve read many recommendations of 3 000mg allso.

  2. Can’t seem to find anything about if milk fats is a good source of fats or a bad one. I heard one (local) famous nutrition expert say that we should all just throw all our low-fat milk container and buy the high-fat one’s. They were the best fats available. The guy allso recommended a protein blend which i noticed they had a 10% soy proteins in, so the guy’s credibillity dropped with me. So… milk fats, good or bad? Thanks up in front

I would think milk fat is a bad fat. It comes from an animal so that would make it animal fat. I could be wrong.

The vit. C thing is not true. Vitmain C is one of the most studied supplements ever in the last 120 years, and I have never heard of anyone coming to the conclusion that it caused cancer, in fact, just the opposite! Read anything by Linus Pauling and his research into Vit. C. Megadoses have been shown to be effective for treating various ailments. I myself take a gram or 2 per day, have done so for 30 years, and the only thing that happened to me is that I don’t get bruises ever and my gums never bleed when I floss.

Dairy fat is saturated (bad), as is anything the alluded to nutrition “expert” says with bullshit.

Butterfats (those found in dairy products) aren’t all bad. Yes, they are predominantly saturated, but they’re the one good source of vitamin A commonly found in the American diet (note I said vit A, not beta-carotene which is an entirely different story). Also, there are some anti-microbial and anti-fungal benefits to certain saturated fats… can’t remember just which ones right now, but is anyone’s interested I’ll look it up. Stearic acid, the main saturated fatty acid in beef is better for your heart than oleic acid (the primary fatty acid in olive oil). Some saturated fats also aid in essential fatty acid conversion. I think the media has made such a big deal about saturated fats that people forget to distinguish between different varieties.

Also, regarding vitamin C, I would think that doses as high as the ones your recommend would probably be unnecessary except in exceedingly high stress situations (perhaps a chemotherapy situation or something comparable). Whether or not intense lifting would qualify for “high stress” I have no idea.

High vitamin C has been shown to be a potential pro-oxidant. I don’t think 2-3 grams is enough to cause this, but this intake is unnecessary.
Additionally urinary vitamin C increase when high doses are taken, so you would probably be better off dividing the dose throughout the day and bracketed around the training.

i’ve never seen poliquin recommending 10000 mg of vitamin C, more like 1000 mg.

i’ve read some evidence suggesting that a certian type of omega-3 fatty acid is removed from milk during the process which converts it from whole milk to 1 or 2 % or skim milk. This type of omega-3 fatty acid that was removed was very beneficial to humans and most people were deficient in it. So it seems whole milk may be the way to go.

CKR: Could you offer a citation or reference about vit C being a pro-oxidant at high doses? Thanks.

FASEB J 1999 Jun;13(9):1007-24

Does vitamin C act as a pro-oxidant under physiological conditions?

Carr A, Frei B

Vitamin C readily scavenges reactive oxygen and nitrogen species and may thereby prevent oxidative damage to important biological
macromolecules such as DNA, lipids, and proteins. Vitamin C also reduces redox active transition metal ions in the active sites of specific biosynthetic enzymes. The interaction of vitamin C with ‘free’, catalytically active metal ions could contribute to oxidative damage through the production of hydroxyl and alkoxyl radicals; whether these mechanisms occur in vivo, however, is uncertain. To examine this issue, we reviewed studies that investigated the role of vitamin C, both in the presence and absence of metal ions, in oxidative DNA, lipid, and protein damage. We
found compelling evidence for antioxidant protection of lipids by vitamin C in biological fluids, animals, and humans, both with and without iron cosupplementation. Although the data on protein oxidation in humans are sparse and inconclusive, the available data in animals consistently
show an antioxidant role of vitamin C. The data on vitamin C and DNA oxidation in vivo are inconsistent and conflicting, but some of the
discrepancies can be explained by flaws in experimental design and methodology. These and other important issues discussed here need to be addressed in future studies of the role of vitamin C in oxidative damage.

Free Radic Res 1996 Nov;25(5):439-54

Vitamin C: antioxidant or pro-oxidant in vivo?

Halliwell B

Neurodegenerative Disease Research Centre, King's College, University of London, UK.

Ascorbic acid has a multiplicity of antioxidant properties, but it can exert pro-oxidant effects in vitro, usually by interaction with transition metal ions. It is as yet uncertain that these pro-oxidant effects have any biological relevance: some of the available data are summarized.