T Nation

Virgin Cycle

I’m contemplating beginning my first ever cycle of AS and would appreciate comments regarding the stack I am considering and what I hope to achieve (particularly from Brock or Bill but all comments will be appreciated). I’m not interested in comments regarding how ‘bad’ steriods are, only constructive criticism of the proposed stack and whether my goals are realistic. I’m 38, 6 feet tall, 190 pounds with approximately 12% bodyfat. Body type is about 50-50 ecto-mesomorph. I’m considering a three week cycle of trenbolone and winstrol with some clomid at the end. Dosage would be: Week 1 and 2 - Inject 100 mg tren EOD and oral 30 mg winny ED. Week 3 - 75 mg tren EOD, 20 mg winny ED and 30 mg clomid ED. I hope to gain 15 pounds of muscle and lose 5 pounds of fat. Comments please. Thanks

First, on the 3 week cycle idea. You have me saying one thing on one hand, and Brian Batcheldor saying another thing on the other hand. I want to stress that I am not saying he’s wrong… “wrong” is something that does not work or has bad effects for the person using it, and his programs work well for his athletes. In fact, the competitive athlete will prefer Brian’s alternating cycle approach to the 2 on / 4 off, if for no reason than that it is more aggressive and he is “on” a higher percentage of the time. A fairer comparison would be 2 on / 2 off but I really have not made that comparison.

That said, I don’t favor 3 weeks. I feel at that point, you’ve missed the window at 2 weeks where recovery is unusually fast (due to the pituitary being at that point not only not inhibited at all, but actually sensitized to LHRH) and really you might as well go 6 or 8 weeks and get more gains… your recovery I think will not be much slower if you go the longer time. I don’t have extensive evidence on that, it is just an impression. Perhaps Brian or others have seen clear evidence that 3 weeks is sustantially faster than 6 or 8 weeks. That would be interesting to know. I have seen that 3 weeks is definitely slower than 2 weeks, and my impression is it is about the same as moderate length cycles.

I think every day is a little better than EOD
for the trenbolone acetate.

I think your Winny dose is low, especially
taken orally. If you have a good injectable,
you should inject it: I believe you get more bang for your buck.

You don’t need the Clomid during the cycle.
After the cycle, dosing should be the same
as written before.

I would suggest gaining the muscle and losing the fat in separate weeks, or separate days, rather than trying to be simultaneous.

I also don’t agree with the tapering philosophy. Just take the dose that you think is the best balance for you, and take that dose every week.

Thanks a lot Bill, I really appreciate the feedback. Based on your advice I believe I’ll go with a couple of two week cycles instead. How does this sound? 50 mgs tren ED (inject) and 50 mgs winny ED (oral, I don’t have it in injectable form). No taper, and I guess no need for the clomid (which I don’t have yet anyway) since it’s a two week deal? I’ll concentrate on gaining mass during the cycles and drop the fat afterwards since losing fat has never been that difficult for me anyways. I’ll shoot for a ten pound gain per cycle for a total of 20 pounds. Sound OK?

Sounds good. But especially since you are going to be losing fat in the off weeks, if you want 20 lb more LBM still there several weeks after the last cycle, you will probably need more than 2 cycles. Three may do it or certainly four should. (Even four cycles is still only 8 weeks on, and 20 lb long-term-retained LBM from 8 weeks total time on is not bad!)