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Vince Gironda - Right or Wrong?


#1

I'd like some opinions on these ideas:

  1. Drink a gallon of milk a day.

  2. Beginners can train every day.

  3. Crunches are bad because they lengthen the hip flexors leading to forward pelvic rotation.

  4. Aerobic exercise is not very good for losing fat and women don't need to do it at all.


#2

Nothing wrong with Vince. Great man.

Here's paraphrasing another great man, use what's useful, reject what's not.


#3

Vince Gironda said these...?

Anyways, FWIW here's my OPINION on the above.

A useful method for gaining weight. Not for everybody(i.e obvious exceptions like the lactose intolerant) but certainly handy for quick initial gains. Nothing magical about it, but an extra 3000 calories per day from liquids alone certainly helps.

Every day? Certainly not. The odd back-to-back day..? It depends. For TBT routines you would need at least one day between workouts to recover(in the beginner stage). But on split-routines if you had squats one day I don't see any reason why that person could not bench press the next day. A day off after that is recommended however.

I'm not enitrely convinced they are bad for you but there are certainly far more effective methods of training your abs. Leg-raises, weighted sit-ups or roll-outs are all far more effective exercises IMO.

Aerobic exercise is not as effective at stripping fat as lifting but it certainly has it's place. It's not a coincidence that the leanest physiques do both. Certainly nobody NEEDS to do it but why would you exlcude cardio when it is beneficial for both your health and physique..?

Also, the notion that men and women must train differently is bullshit. We are the same species. But perhaps one of our vixens can answer this in more detail


#4

Also, at the end of the day. Whatever works for you is just gravy...


#5

In addition to a 'normal' diet, yes. If you already have a bulking diet nailed down, it would lead to excessive fat gain.

Probably true, especially with a BB split. Any noob busting ass seven days a week gets kudos in my book.

Are you sure he didn't say 'strengthens'? Stretching the hip flexors is one of the things you do to get rid of anterior pelvic tilt.

He would have done better by saying that aerobic exercise is fine but it works better when combined with a lifting program. It's really not very good all by itself.


#6

First of all, saying that Vince Gironda was "right or wrong" about anything bodybuilding-related is like saying Christian Thibaudeau was "right or wrong" about anything bodybuilding-related. It just ain't that clear cut.

Gironda advised certain strategies during a certain period in the history of bodybuilding, and while some of his recommendations may be contrary to current thinking, he was a legitimate groundbreaker and proponent of a bunch of concepts that people still use today. He was one of the most popular and successful trainers of his era for a reason.

I think you're either misinterpreting or misrepresenting some things that Gironda wrote back in the day. Where are you pulling these ideas from?

"The strongest men in history have always been big milk drinkers, BUT, remember - USE ONLY CERTIFIED RAW MILK. The enzymes have not been destroyed by heat (Pasteurization).
[...]
Weight gainers should try to take at least a pint of liquid (I suggest CERTIFIED RAW MILK) at every meal and drink one pint of water or boullion after every muscle exercise during workouts."
- From "Vince Gironda's Blueprint for the Bodybuilder" (Note: The capitalization/emphasis was his.)

My opinion: Three solid meals plus a gallon of milk a day is a time-tested, no-frills weight gaining plan, but there are other very effective nutrition strategies like carb and/or calorie cycling and peri-workout planning.

"I believe that a beginner does not need a day of rest between his exercise sessions.
[...]
I advise a beginner to train six days a week using one set of each exercise only. The second week, I allow him two sets of each exercise, and the third week he gets three sets per exercise. Thereafter he stays with three sets for six months, but the exercises do change."
- From "The Wild Physique."

"Therefore, I say, that when you feel you have reached your sticking point, take a week's rest and then resume whatever regime you desire; but I also recommend that you take this week's rest each month.
[...]
So, let this be your slogan. . . "Work 21 days - rest seven!"
- From "Vince's Corner." (Again, all italicized emphasis is his.)

My opinion: A high frequency, low volume program (as described above) is just one method of training a beginner. I generally see better results from clients using a slightly lower frequency with more work done per workout.

I also don't necessarily agree with the "work 21 days, rest 7" concept, but I do believe that brief, strategic periods of non-training can certainly be useful in the long-term.

"Most people are unaware that the full sit-up and leg raise exercises are notprimary abdominal movements.
[...]
The partial sit-up (lifting the body only one-quarter or one-half of the way) is a better abdominal builder."

My opinion: Um... Gironda says crunches are a good way to train the abs. I agree, though I also suggest addressing anti-flexion/anti-rotation.

I'd love to include a quote here, but the only reference to aerobic exercise I could find in the found Gironda books I own is one brief line in "The Wild Physique" when discussing a list of reasons for being expelled from Vince's Gym:
"9. Mentioning the words running or aerobics."

Similarly, I couldn't find his opinion on women's cardio training, since the two pages he spends discussing women bodybuilders in "The Wild Physique" simply explains the benefits of weight training for women.

My opinion: Anaerobic cardio (such as sprints, complexes, or HIIT) seems to be more effective when used as a dedicated fat loss plan, but aerobic training can be useful at times (such as low intensity cardio done immediately after weight training).

Now where do I go to collect my award for longest post of the day?


#7

Thanks for these answers. This is what I was looking for. Yes I did get confused and should have said strengthens the hip flexors not lengthens.

When Vince talks about crunches I'm sure he means 'frog crunches' as I've read that he would not actually allow the regular crunches to be performed in his gym and was dead against them.

What really interests me is the milk. I've always tried to minimise my milk intake due to feelings of bloating, increased phlegm and chest congestion when I have a cold/flu, concern about high levels of casein protein and its possible link to forms of cancer.


#8

Ovarian Cancer. I'll leave it up to you whether or not to worry about that.

The bloating can be remedied via inexpensive enzyme caps.


#9

Haha thats great, makes me want to read that book.

Good post

When ever I read an author I usually find something that I disagree with, large or small.
A lot of the authors that are well known have very black and white opinions on various things some will love them and some will hate them, the contraversy part of what makes them successful.
As someone already said take what is useful and discard the rest (although you may find down the track you will change your mind).

One last thing I will add is that 1 gallon is a fuckload of milk!, I see it recomended sometimes and I aplaud anyone who has done it more that a couple of days.


#10

I agree. Just wondering which things are useful and which aren't. I also like Vince but don't believe he was right about everything. Frederick Matthias Alexander was also another guy who was way ahead of his time but not right about everything.


#11

Find out for yourself?