I agree that this scenario would be probably one of the best for determining what works best but there are little things that would still be different.
Life stress (work, relationship, sickness)
Drive (twin A may be putting everything into every rep while twin B just sleeps through it)
Diet compliance (this goes without saying how it could vary)
I think ppl should focus more on what’s doable, and what we know works and make adjustments from there to get closer to what’s best for you.
I wish when I just started I’d understood the concept that I will not endlessly gain muscle mass. I can honestly say I didn’t gain the muscle I have optimally but I got there and in about 5 years. The last 5 years I’ve gained very little muscle (if any) despite going through some brutal training strict diet (for gaining) and being fully dedicated. I just hit my cap and without chemical engineering I’m not going to gain much more muscle. I have gained a lot more strength but mass is about the same. My point is that training doesn’t have to be optimal to work. I can understand if you’re a competitor but I think most ppl here just want to be bigger, stronger and healthy.
I have gained a lot more strength but mass is about the same
Curious, have you also increased your calories to accommodate the new strength? I remember in older threads that guys like Professor X and Cephalic_Carnage would talk about having to up the calories more and more as they got bigger/stronger (though they’d obviously hit a cap eventually).
I agree that this scenario would be probably one of the best for determining what works best but there are little things that would still be different.
The implication was that these would be the same too for the twins, though obviously that’s impossible in real life. I guess I’m just curious how much frequency even matters (I even started a thread in the beginner forum about this). If anything, my experience in gyms and sports has shown me that it almost doesn’t matter how you train, as long as you get strong as hell for reps and eat. On this site, you have big guys training in all sorts of different ways.
On the first point: at times, yes I increased and ate what ever I wanted and got fat.i got stronger, fatter but not more muscular. If I gained muscle it was little. I’ve lost quite a bit of weight at this point from a high of 240 to 205 currently. (Although when I actually got serious about cutting weight I was around 230) my base strength is much higher now though. Idk if that is just from more experience or dirty bulking and getting stronger. And really to say bulking isn’t true I just wanted to up my total and didn’t care about my weight.
On the second point: I think you’re correct.and the fact that so many big strong guys train in so many ways says that’s splits, frequency, not as important as sticking with something. Don’t get caught up in all the information that’s tossed around. HIIT , full body, bro splits, upper lower, PPL, 2/3/4/5/6 days a week. High volume , low volume, heavy light medium weight. Just go in and find something , stick with it, add weight to the bar, add reps to the weight, eat and you’ll get bigger. I’ve been guilty of falling for all this crap myself, looking for optimal.
No, there is no reason to eat during training. I’ve read a lot about nutrition and here are some of my take-home points. During one of CT’s articles about intermittent fasting, he said it takes two to three hours for the body to digest and process your last meal of the day.
During a video interview, Dr Brad Schoenfeld talked about protein synthesis and meal timing. 40 g of protein resulted in more hypertrophy than 20 grams of protein. There hasn’t been a study that compared 40 g to a higher amount like 60 g. Protein synthesis lasts for about 4 hours after one of these meals.
Combine those thoughts and you have a very simple approach to eating. Eat meals with 40 to 60 g of protein every 4 hours or so and you should theoretically be in the best position for muscle growth. To extend and apply that to pre or intra workout nutrition, add carbs to your meal and you should have plenty of fuel and nutrients for two to three hours.
We also have to remember that studies that compare this stuff usually have marginal differences in results. Group A might outperform Group B but the end result is so small that it’s not worth rearranging your life. I figure I’m good as long as I eat 2 hours before or after my training.
Also, this is spot-on. I used to have Starburst in my bag for hard leg days because nausea would sneak up on me. I’d eat a few Starbursts and be good as new.
And then there’s this.
I tried the Best Damn Program For Naturals but I don’t like it. I don’t enjoy doing slow eccentrics to failure every session. I really don’t enjoy 5-second eccentrics at all. The mind is a powerful tool and if it dislikes the best program in the world then it will not work as advertised.
The question with intra-workout nutrition is answered pretty simply in my opinion. There are two reasons why it doesn’t really matter.
If you ate 1-2 hours before going to the gym, your body is processing that food while you’re training.
What you eat at the gym won’t be processed by your body during training anyway.
That’s pretty much all there’s to it in my opinion. This makes pre-workout nutrition pretty important though.
But then real life evidence suggests you can get away without it either and still make phenomenal gains, likely because unless you haven’t had a meal in ages, your body still has glycogen and intra-muscular fat to use for energy, and it doesn’t take much more to break that down and use it than it does to digest a meal.
So I guess the only important thing is… To eat? But I think everybody already knows that haha.
i got stronger, fatter but not more muscular. If I gained muscle it was little. I’ve lost quite a bit of weight at this point from a high of 240 to 205 currently. (Although when I actually got serious about cutting weight I was around 230) my base strength is much higher now though.
Do you mind sharing what your strength levels were when you stopped gaining muscle compared to what they are now?
I’m asking because a lot of what I learned about lifting for size came from the DC crowd, whose basic message boiled down to “Get as strong as possible for reps = Get as big as possible.” And my experience in gyms and sports (lacrosse, football, boxing) reflected that as well. The guys who benched 405 x 10 were all bigger than the guys who did 315 x 10, and those guys were almost always bigger than the guys who could do 225 x 10. And so on for every major lift (for reps, not counting singles and doubles). And I’m talking about max strength, not a big guy who chooses to train light after getting super strong first.
Yeah I mean there’s a lot to that, increasing your 10rm by 90 lbs is gonna make you bigger. But at the same time that’s a point A——-B type
Of thing. What all did you do between that to increase that 10rm 90 lbs lol
My strength gains were nothing to write home about considering the amount of bw I increased. 35-40 increase body weight and my best deadlift increased 50lbs, bench 30, squats around 40 lbs. of course before I was doing 5/3/1 and trying to stay in shape vs strictly doing powerlifting programming and no cardio.
I will say this when I was heavier I could do reps much better. Idk why but repping a moderate weight out was much easier.
Just that strength and size gains do not always move that linearly When you are at elite levels of strength (315x10 requires high level lifter and 405 x10 is something very few can dream of) . If they did the powerlifting forums would only be filled with PR videos and not “my bench is stuck” or “I can’t get my deadlift to increase” threads.
Basically between point A and B there’s a lot of lift variation, adjustments , volume variations etc. or tons of gear.
Since this discussion is based from a John Meadows video and I saw workout nutrition discussed, I thought I’d include John’s “Concoction Bowl”, which is (no idea if he still uses it) one of his recommendations for pre-workout. Damn good.
I wake up at 5am, shit, and eat 1 multigrain bar along with 24g whey shake on the drive to the gym. I’m doing my warm-up by 530, starting to train by 545. I have a diluted 32oz intra drink consisting of 1/2 serving pre workout along with Tang. I struggle to get through a 45 minute training session first thing in the morning without that shot of carbs. It makes a very noticeable difference in all my athletic activities to have intracarbs.