Victims of Tookie Williams.....

[quote]Professor X wrote:
1fastford wrote:
Then why is Manson never going to face death?

Manson didnt kill anyone, his nutjob lsd enduced cheer squad did

I hate to inform you of this, but he was on death row. Thanks for your educated input, however.[/quote]

I thought Manson’s crimes occurred before the death penalty was reinstated. I’d have to do a web search on this one, though.

Re Manson:

Although Manson himself was not present at the Tate/La Bianca killings, he was convicted of first degree murder on January 25, 1971, for ordering and directing them, and on March 29 was sentenced to death. The death sentence was later automatically commuted to life in prison after the California Supreme Court’s People v. Anderson decision resulted in the invalidation of all death sentences imposed in California prior to 1972. The killers, giggling in court, were asked if they felt remorse, and gave answers that indicated they did not.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
1fastford wrote:
Then why is Manson never going to face death?

Manson didnt kill anyone, his nutjob lsd enduced cheer squad did

I hate to inform you of this, but he was on death row. Thanks for your educated input, however.[/quote]

BB already schooled you once (in another thread) on why Manson won’t be put to death.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
So while we applaud his efforts after he decided to become human, he must still receive the consequences of his actions.

Hey lorisco I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but that’s the part that liberals hate.

It’s those nasty consequences…[/quote]

I am with you Zeb.

When you can apply that standard to folks on your own team (GOP) then your words might mean something.

Until then you are nothing more than a hypocrite.

Intellectual dishonest is a beotch!

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
1fastford wrote:
Then why is Manson never going to face death?

Manson didnt kill anyone, his nutjob lsd enduced cheer squad did

I hate to inform you of this, but he was on death row. Thanks for your educated input, however.

BB already schooled you once (in another thread) on why Manson won’t be put to death.[/quote]

And the question I posed to him can be the exact same one to you. The death penalty was reinstated. Why isn’t there any sort of push at all to get him back on death row? What happened to revenge?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

And the question I posed to him can be the exact same one to you. The death penalty was reinstated. Why isn’t there any sort of push at all to get him back on death row? What happened to revenge?[/quote]

And the answer then, as it is now, is that there is a complication that trying to get in reinstated would get snarled up in the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
1fastford wrote:
Then why is Manson never going to face death?

Manson didnt kill anyone, his nutjob lsd enduced cheer squad did

I hate to inform you of this, but he was on death row. Thanks for your educated input, however.

BB already schooled you once (in another thread) on why Manson won’t be put to death.

And the question I posed to him can be the exact same one to you. The death penalty was reinstated. Why isn’t there any sort of push at all to get him back on death row? What happened to revenge?[/quote]

That’s a good question. He was on death row when the death penalty was in effect, then off. Now it’s back, so why isn’t he back on? Must be all those women who want to marry him.

So are you saying it’s racial? Easy to kill a black guy, not easy to kill a white guy? Well, there have been plenty of white guys get the chair. Hell, in Texas they even give plenty of women the chair.

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
PGA200X wrote:

Yeah, but all those dead bodies can’t take away Tookie’s inspirational writings, or his multiple Nobel nominations. Surely we should have celebrated his great works instead of punishing him for his hasty youthful indiscretions!
/dumbass off[/quote]

That is the most stupidest fucking excuse I have ever heard for a person who has murdered someone. You can celebrate his works and his nominations, but the fact remains he killed four innocent people. He also is responsible for many other killings that have occured in the name of the crips. Where are the nominations for his victims?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
1fastford wrote:
Then why is Manson never going to face death?

Manson didnt kill anyone, his nutjob lsd enduced cheer squad did

I hate to inform you of this, but he was on death row. Thanks for your educated input, however.

BB already schooled you once (in another thread) on why Manson won’t be put to death.

And the question I posed to him can be the exact same one to you. The death penalty was reinstated. Why isn’t there any sort of push at all to get him back on death row? What happened to revenge?[/quote]

Did Manson commit the murders first hand? No. How many murders do you think Tookie ordered? How many do you think he still ordered from jail? Put him and Manson side by side. They both had people carry out murders but one actually murdered people himself also, Tookie.

Manson brainwashed a handful of people. Tookie had THOUSANDS of people brainwashed into his lifestyle. But Tookie is considered to be the lesser of the evils?

[quote]lxrazor wrote:
Cunnivore wrote:
PGA200X wrote:

Yeah, but all those dead bodies can’t take away Tookie’s inspirational writings, or his multiple Nobel nominations. Surely we should have celebrated his great works instead of punishing him for his hasty youthful indiscretions!
/dumbass off

That is the most stupidest fucking excuse I have ever heard for a person who has murdered someone. You can celebrate his works and his nominations, but the fact remains he killed four innocent people. He also is responsible for many other killings that have occured in the name of the crips. Where are the nominations for his victims?[/quote]

He was joking.

Veg, whether anyone agrees with you or not, that’s a well argued viewpoint. Nice.

Yikes, Tookie may have been the scourge of the earth, but this looks like a bit of a slippery slope.

To me this is getting old, He did a crime and was punished. Not even sure how revenge is a factor here. Maybe death was not a fitting punishment but it’s what the courts decided…
Both my wife and myself have family that works in the prison system and they see people reforming all the time just like “tookie” and most of the time it’s bullshit. Maybe he was genuine, but he could have given up a lot more info about the gangs…This is just my point of view, nothing more.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Tookie had THOUSANDS of people brainwashed into his lifestyle. But Tookie is considered to be the lesser of the evils?

Yikes, Tookie may have been the scourge of the earth, but this looks like a bit of a slippery slope.
[/quote]

I see you took intro to Philosophy also. My point is he most definitly had a hand in more deaths than what he was sentenced to and many more than Manson.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
He was joking.[/quote]

I’m apoligize, I reacted a little too fast. sorry

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Tookie had THOUSANDS of people brainwashed into his lifestyle. But Tookie is considered to be the lesser of the evils?

Yikes, Tookie may have been the scourge of the earth, but this looks like a bit of a slippery slope.

I see you took intro to Philosophy also. My point is he most definitly had a hand in more deaths than what he was sentenced to and many more than Manson.[/quote]

You aren’t actually arguing that Manson would not/does not deserve death?
When it gets to the level of these crimes, I think it a bit foolish to begin arguing degrees.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

So are you saying it’s racial? Easy to kill a black guy, not easy to kill a white guy? Well, there have been plenty of white guys get the chair. Hell, in Texas they even give plenty of women the chair.

[/quote]

Did I say anything about race? You wrote an entire paragraph based on what?

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Did Manson commit the murders first hand? No. How many murders do you think Tookie ordered? How many do you think he still ordered from jail? Put him and Manson side by side. They both had people carry out murders but one actually murdered people himself also, Tookie.

Manson brainwashed a handful of people. Tookie had THOUSANDS of people brainwashed into his lifestyle. But Tookie is considered to be the lesser of the evils?[/quote]

Who said he was the lesser of two evils? It was written that this law is written to keep things fair and balanced across the board. Apparently this is not the case. Double Jeopardy is about trying someone twice for the same crime.

This man was found guilty and given life, they changed a law, took him off deathrow, change the law back…and this is double jeopardy to put him back on? That’s retarded. That’s like getting a speeding ticket, having them change the speed limit…and then getting your money back. 20 years later, if they change the speedlimit back to where it was previously, they should take my money again.

Does any of that make sense?

You can’t argue that Tookie “ordered murders” from jail (with no proof, mind you) and then act as if Manson didn’t do anything wrong worth worrying about. That’s retarded and shouldn’t truly be making any sense to the people saying it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
Did Manson commit the murders first hand? No. How many murders do you think Tookie ordered? How many do you think he still ordered from jail? Put him and Manson side by side. They both had people carry out murders but one actually murdered people himself also, Tookie.

Manson brainwashed a handful of people. Tookie had THOUSANDS of people brainwashed into his lifestyle. But Tookie is considered to be the lesser of the evils?

Who said he was the lesser of two evils? It was written that this law is written to keep things fair and balanced across the board. Apparently this is not the case. Double Jeopardy is about trying someone twice for the same crime.

This man was found guilty and given life, they changed a law, took him off deathrow, change the law back…and this is double jeopardy to put him back on? That’s retarded. That’s like getting a speeding ticket, having them change the speed limit…and then getting your money back. 20 years later, if they change the speedlimit back to where it was previously, they should take my money again.

Does any of that make sense?

You can’t argue that Tookie “ordered murders” from jail (with no proof, mind you) and then act as if Manson didn’t do anything wrong worth worrying about. That’s retarded and shouldn’t truly be making any sense to the people saying it.[/quote]

You’re saying Tookie was sentenced to life first then later on when the law was changed he was put on death row?

I will never know if Tookie sent word for people to be killed from jail but I think its a pretty easy guess. C’mon X he would still be running things from behind bars.

Manson is guilty. Tookie was guilty. Tookie had hands on killing someone. Manson did not. Tookie was killed, Manson will not be. Does ordering the killing of someone warrant the death penalty? If not, Manson should not be killed. Tookie was personsible for the deaths of 4 people, Manson was not.

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
You’re saying Tookie was sentenced to life first then later on when the law was changed he was put on death row?

I will never know if Tookie sent word for people to be killed from jail but I think its a pretty easy guess. C’mon X he would still be running things from behind bars.

Manson is guilty. Tookie was guilty. Tookie had hands on killing someone. Manson did not. Tookie was killed, Manson will not be. Does ordering the killing of someone warrant the death penalty? If not, Manson should not be killed. Tookie was personsible for the deaths of 4 people, Manson was not.[/quote]

What are you talking about? the ONLY reason Manson is not on death row is because they changed the law, changed it back and left him off. In fact, if “ordering murders” shouldn’t be a factor in the death penalty, why is this fact brought up by just about anyone speaking the case concerning Tookie?

If you are going to make the case that Manson should not be on death row because he didn’t “act bad enough”, then why not look at Tookie’s chances of rehabilitation at all?