T Nation

Vets vs. Illegal Aliens (Guess Who Loses)

I’m sure most of you here know that if anything healthcare benefits for illegal aliens will only increase under the Obama administration.Ok so here’s what I don’t understand (maybe you can help me).Why do people who committed a crime to even be here get free gold plated healthcare and then on the flip side the president and his crew of flunkies comes up with this:

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance.

Lawmakers say they’d reject a proposal to make veterans pay for treatment of war wounds with private insurance.

But the proposal would be “dead on arrival” if it’s sent to Congress, Sen. Patty Murray, D-Washington, said.

Murray used that blunt terminology when she told Shinseki that the idea would not be acceptable and would be rejected if formally proposed. Her remarks came during a hearing before the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs about the 2010 budget.

No official proposal to create such a program has been announced publicly, but veterans groups wrote a pre-emptive letter last week to President Obama voicing their opposition to the idea after hearing the plan was under consideration.

The groups also cited an increase in “third-party collections” estimated in the 2010 budget proposal – something they said could be achieved only if the Veterans Administration started billing for service-related injuries.

Asked about the proposal, Shinseki said it was under “consideration.”

“A final decision hasn’t been made yet,” he said.

Currently, veterans’ private insurance is charged only when they receive health care from the VA for medical issues that are not related to service injuries, like getting the flu.

Charging for service-related injuries would violate “a sacred trust,” Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis said. Davis said the move would risk private health care for veterans and their families by potentially maxing out benefits paying for costly war injury treatments.

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A second senator, North Carolina Republican Richard Burr, said he agreed that the idea should not go forward.

“I think you will give that up” as a revenue stream if it is included in this April’s budget, Burr said.

Murray said she’d already discussed her concerns with the secretary the previous week.

“I believe that veterans with service-connected injuries have already paid by putting their lives on the line,” Murray said in her remarks. “I don’t think we should nickel and dime them for their care.”

Eleven of the most prominent veterans organizations have been lobbying Congress to oppose the idea. In the letter sent last week to the president, the groups warned that the idea “is wholly unacceptable and a total abrogation of our government’s moral and legal responsibility to the men and women who have sacrificed so much.”

The groups included The American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Military Order of the Purple Heart, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America.

At the time, a White House spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the option was being considered.
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All About Veterans’ Affairs ? Barack Obama

Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a country that cares more about leaches and criminals than law abiding CITIZENS? Where did we go so wrong? We were once a proud nation of immigrants looking for freedom but now we are becoming a nation of handouts and free rides. I am sick of hearing about how the US was founded on immigrants. Yes we are but 200 years ago people did not come to this country with directions to the welfare office.

My family came here for freedom and had to work 12 hour a day/7 days a week and some had to fight for that freedom. They did this so certain animals can legally say “God damn America”? I don’t think so. When people came to America they did it to become AMERICAN not be a mexican in America or a pakistani in America. If those countries were so good people would not leave them.

I blame people with the ALCLU mentality. The same people that sue their own government for having un-safe illegal border crossings. Yes we have to provide water to illegals in the desert so we don’t get sued. Now we have a bleeding heart liberal president that wants to take away health care for our soldiers who have actually done something for this country. What’s next? Free fertility drugs for illegals? God knows once they can crap out a kid here we are stuck with them.
Thats my rant for now.

Terrible idea. With that being said…

"Unfortunately, without urgent changes in health care funding, our new veterans will soon discover their battles are not over. They will be forced to fight for the life of a health-care system that was designed specifically for their unique needs.

Just as the veterans of the 20th century did, they will be forced into a long-standing battle to fulfill America’s promise to make that system available to all veterans."

  • This We Believe, a joint statement by the Disabled American Veterans, the American Legion, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars

President Bush Leads Republican Effort to Slash Veterans’ Health Programs; Democrats Fight Back

November 24, 2003

"Unfortunately, without urgent changes in health care funding, our new veterans will soon discover their battles are not over. They will be forced to fight for the life of a health-care system that was designed specifically for their unique needs.

Just as the veterans of the 20th century did, they will be forced into a long-standing battle to fulfill America’s promise to make that system available to all veterans."

  • This We Believe, a joint statement by the Disabled American Veterans, the American Legion, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars (June 2002)

“The current funding amount is a betrayal of the assurances we were given. Either the funding amount for veterans’ health care must be increased by $1.8 billion, or the VA-HUD appropriations bill must be defeated.”

  • Letter to Members of the House of Representatives by Robert Wallace, Executive Director of the Veterans of Foreign Wars

Oh, oops, those were from 2002 and 2003 when Bush was busy slashing veterans benefits. Do you care now because it’s a democrat president?

More fun…

"In the last two years, Bush ordered the closing of several Veterans Administration hospitals in different parts of the country, pushing waiting lists for medical services for veterans as high as six months for about 230,000 vets. These closings followed in the wake of the congressional Republicans? drive in 2003 to cut $15 billion from VA spending over the next 10 years.

President Bush plans to slash veterans? health care benefits by over $900 million and veterans? housing programs by $50 million in 2005 alone, according to an Associated Press story about a leaked White House Budget Office memo.

A Center for American Progress analysis said, ?President Bush?s 2005 budget would increase prescription drug co-pays from $7 to $15 for many veterans. In 2002, the co-pay went from $2 to $7.? This co-pay increase would have the biggest impact on ?near-poor? veterans whose incomes are just high enough to require that they pay the new premium.

The Pentagon plans to reduce deferred benefit packages and increase one-time cash awards for new enlistees in the hopes of reducing, even eliminating, long-term benefit programs. " http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/6506/1/254

My point being of course that no one on the right cared while Bush was hanging out veterans to dry.

It’s funny how democrats are consistently rated better than republicans by Veteran groups across the board. Reality’s a mother fucker.

[quote]TimZ wrote:
Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a country that cares more about leaches and criminals than law abiding CITIZENS? Where did we go so wrong? [/quote]

Altruism. Your morality is being used as a weapon against you.

[quote]TimZ wrote:
200 years ago people did not come to this country with directions to the welfare office.
[/quote]

no instead they allowed their votes to be bought, usually by more than 1 candidate, for free food and other goods.

oh wait, this still happens today, except they only get to vote once.

those people 200 years ago also formed ethnic gangs everywhere they went, and killed people over which side of the street the played stickball.

delusional turd.

as much as you hate bleeding hearts, it seems you sit there and bleed over this issue just as much lol.

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Terrible idea. With that being said…

"Unfortunately, without urgent changes in health care funding, our new veterans will soon discover their battles are not over. They will be forced to fight for the life of a health-care system that was designed specifically for their unique needs.

Just as the veterans of the 20th century did, they will be forced into a long-standing battle to fulfill America’s promise to make that system available to all veterans."

  • This We Believe, a joint statement by the Disabled American Veterans, the American Legion, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars

President Bush Leads Republican Effort to Slash Veterans’ Health Programs; Democrats Fight Back

November 24, 2003

"Unfortunately, without urgent changes in health care funding, our new veterans will soon discover their battles are not over. They will be forced to fight for the life of a health-care system that was designed specifically for their unique needs.

Just as the veterans of the 20th century did, they will be forced into a long-standing battle to fulfill America’s promise to make that system available to all veterans."

  • This We Believe, a joint statement by the Disabled American Veterans, the American Legion, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars (June 2002)

“The current funding amount is a betrayal of the assurances we were given. Either the funding amount for veterans’ health care must be increased by $1.8 billion, or the VA-HUD appropriations bill must be defeated.”

  • Letter to Members of the House of Representatives by Robert Wallace, Executive Director of the Veterans of Foreign Wars

Oh, oops, those were from 2002 and 2003 when Bush was busy slashing veterans benefits. Do you care now because it’s a democrat president?

More fun…

"In the last two years, Bush ordered the closing of several Veterans Administration hospitals in different parts of the country, pushing waiting lists for medical services for veterans as high as six months for about 230,000 vets. These closings followed in the wake of the congressional Republicans? drive in 2003 to cut $15 billion from VA spending over the next 10 years.

President Bush plans to slash veterans? health care benefits by over $900 million and veterans? housing programs by $50 million in 2005 alone, according to an Associated Press story about a leaked White House Budget Office memo.

A Center for American Progress analysis said, ?President Bush?s 2005 budget would increase prescription drug co-pays from $7 to $15 for many veterans. In 2002, the co-pay went from $2 to $7.? This co-pay increase would have the biggest impact on ?near-poor? veterans whose incomes are just high enough to require that they pay the new premium.

The Pentagon plans to reduce deferred benefit packages and increase one-time cash awards for new enlistees in the hopes of reducing, even eliminating, long-term benefit programs. " http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/6506/1/254

My point being of course that no one on the right cared while Bush was hanging out veterans to dry.

It’s funny how democrats are consistently rated better than republicans by Veteran groups across the board. Reality’s a mother fucker.[/quote]

its retarded, one guy gets AWAY with cutting benefits for the troops and they sit on their hands and hold their tongues.

next guy TRIES to but wont even get close to cutting anything, and their up in arms.

always funny when people would rather foam from thier asses about an issue to make political zingers, than really care about the issue they seem to be up in arms about.

and they wonder why patriotism is dead.

I realise most politcians really wouldn’t give a drop of piss to help out. What really gets me is the BHO is supposed to be about change. Looks to me like once again its more of the same.

I’m a middle of the road kinda of guy. I refuse to say that all “illegals” are leeches to the U.S, but I will say that some are. Some of these evil “illegals” actually pay taxes. “Get the fuck out of our country but will take your money” Hypocrisy, served daily. Pay into social security accounts that they will never see a cent of it.

Have better premiums on their auto insurances than the average “citizen” because that?s the only policy the company offers that will cover them. Consequently they pay a huge sum for that coverage. Pay for their medical bills, which goes against public belief, and some even manage to pay for Blue Cross. They abide by the law beside the obvious and refuse to make waves.

Sometimes these “fiends” decide to go even further and retain an immigration attorney in order to obtain residency and a path to citizenship. At a heavy financial toll, from attorney’s fees and the heavy cock of penalties coming from the U.S. Some of the spawn of these demonic people go as far as ending up at Harvard’s campus merely running on the generous contributions of made Hispanics or Chicano Unity groups.

Surely he/she is bound to be a toothless crackhead selling meth to poor little white blond, blue eyed boys and girls. I refuse to put these people on the same boat as the other group of illegal immigrants that are fucking the system in the ass and screwing everything up for the ones that are a benefit to this country. I don’t believe in amnesty.

I don’t think an illiterate seasonal field laborer that requires a translator at the hearing should have the same podium or opportunities as a UC Davis student, majoring in Psychology. Nothing roasts my chicken more than seeing a pregnant, just off the ban, woman paying with WIC or food stamps. I FUCKING WORK HARD, bust my ass, to at the end of the tax year have the IRS shove a bat up my ass, so this bitch can feed her kids.

It?s not just them mind you, I’ve seen many a toothless white crack whore doing the same thing, but that?s an entire argument in itself. I don’t agree with that. Giving free meals to someone for merely existing. From my sociological observations, I’ve been able to tell the difference between the two.

The latter fails to integrate to American society. (Yes, I’m going against the beliefs of the Governator, who once said that the Mexicans fail to integrate, I hope that bastard is alive long enough to see me make some waves) They refuse to let go of Mexico or whatever (more likely than not) South American country they’re from.

Any area that they congregate/populate they quickly turn it into the Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan counterpart. They merely don’t care, they are here to make money, send it back and go back. That?s it. I do believe that an immigration reform is in order, but instead of getting all the illegals, wetbacks, beaners, Mexicans, etc that “Took our jobs” the U.S needs to sift through all of them and based on a merit system to determine who stays and who can “get the fudge out”.

It has to be done, because the union is blatantly being affected by it. For the good health of the union, it has to be done.

PB-Crawl, can you demonstrate your claim that Bush cut anything for veterans?

The word “cut” meaning in this case, to decrease from what something had been.

Don’t tell you us heard it from your brother-in-law or they said it on Democratic Underground or you found it on the Daily Kos… the budgets and expenditures are easily found and you could give the exact figures to prove your nutty claim, if it were true.

Funny how Bush vastly increased spending on everything – we had thought, like a drunken sailor till Obama came to show us how it’s really done – yet the lefties never stop about how everything was supposedly “cut,” with media lapdogs dutifully spreading the lies.

I’m not sure Bush ever cut ANYTHING, but he sure didn’t cut spending on veterans. I’ve looked up the figures in the past (perhaps a year ago): it is just not remotely an accurate claim.

As for the main topic, Obama’s doing this: What, did leftists have a reputation for having positive feelings towards our military and its personnel? So what is the surprise?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
mouth vomit[/quote]

look at the 2004 budget. then look at the 2003 budget. pay close attention to veteran health care and programs.

2005 was underfunded by a couple billion. The VA estimates were ignored.

then take a gander at the 2008 budget. Read about the pledge to have a balanced budget by 2012. Do some math.

i like how everyone you seem to disagree with you immediately assume theyre leftist democrats who frequent leftist think tanks.(i had to go look up dem underground and Kos to see if those were pet names for something else HAH!)Its nice to see that you’ve matured…

I’m sorry, I looked at those budgets before and every year was markedly greater than the last. Not cut.

Since you were obviously too lazy to look the figures up before making your false claim, I’ll provide you a source. Now you need merely click the mouse.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’m sorry, I looked at those budgets before and every year was markedly greater than the last. Not cut.[/quote]

Well I cant help you with your reading comprehension or math. Thats your problem.

Note to anyone else: I added the link with an edit during the time period PB-Crawl was ignorantly replying: he had not seen it.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’m sorry, I looked at those budgets before and every year was markedly greater than the last. Not cut.

Since you were obviously too lazy to look the figures up before making your false claim, I’ll provide you a source. Now you need merely click the mouse.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/veterans/a/vabudget04.htm [/quote]

feel free compare that to what the actual budget needs were.(ones that compensated for real inflation and increased demands from the war, and for the new charges to actually use VA services.)

05: http://www.mcleague.com/mdp/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=15
06: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,83887,00.html

in 09 funding for hospice and nursing home VA care was under reported for “unknown” reason. 300million short.

all this crap just to attempt to balance 2012 budget projections.

As I knew you would: you call dollar increases over the previous year – and in excess of inflation – “cuts.”

Discussion with a person who calls red “blue,” increase “decrease,” up “down,” etc is pointless. There is no bigger waste of time than such an effort. Goodbye.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
As I knew you would: you call dollar increases over the previous year – and in excess of inflation – “cuts.”

Discussion with a person who calls red “blue,” increase “decrease,” up “down,” etc is pointless. There is no bigger waste of time than such an effort. Goodbye.[/quote]

yes, when the budget requires in increase of 7.9% and you give it 3.4%, that’s still in increase, but it doesn’t mean programs and medical services wont be cut since you now have a budget shortfall from rising demand and inflation.

i was never arguing dollar increases. Dollar increases dont mean shit without comprehension of budget needs.

Seeing numbers on paper helps you sleep at night when in real life our soldiers were getting short changed when they came home, awesome. Our vets who slept with roaches and rats in Walter Reed appreciate you pointing out that on paper we actually gave them more “dollar increases.”

I don’t believe the administration believes it is directly charging veterans with this plan, but ultimately it would. What’s proposed is that if a veteran has health insurance, that VA treatment would be treated just like any other medical treatment, with the insurance provider being billed for any charges they would cover and then VA/Tricare supplementing the rest.

It suggests a failure to understand that business (in this case, insurance businesses) does not operate in a vacuum. And it reflects a perception that I think is common in the current administration that “it’s only the insurance company’s money”.

As an aside, I would like to see/hear the Director of Veterans Affairs GEN Shinseki (ret) take a much stronger stand on this; so far I am underwhelmed with his response.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=8791

General Shinseki is thought of as a Soldiers General which is a high compliment in the Army.

This is wrong on a lot of levels. I find it insulting to ask a man who was wounded or injured in combat to pay for his care. I say this as a combat veteran.

I think it is typical of the attitude this administration has towards the military. Current and past members.

$900 million for Palestinian’s to build up their target base so Israel can blow them up again but cut the $500 million for veterans who were injured. What bullshit. Unfortunately typical for this administration.

[quote]hedo wrote:
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=8791

General Shinseki is thought of as a Soldiers General which is a high compliment in the Army.

This is wrong on a lot of levels. I find it insulting to ask a man who was wounded or injured in combat to pay for his care. I say this as a combat veteran.

I think it is typical of the attitude this administration has towards the military. Current and past members.

$900 million for Palestinian’s to build up their target base so Israel can blow them up again but cut the $500 million for veterans who were injured. What bullshit. Unfortunately typical for this administration.[/quote]

Agreed.

However- our opinions differ on the former CSA. Not to hijack this thread, nor drag up a dead issue- but the issuing of black berets to everyone was not a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ decison; it was the wrong decision.

Instead of gimmicks to make everyone feel special (presto! you’re elite!); how about enforcing existing standards? That might go further than witnessing fat majors and the like walking around wearing unshaved, mal-formed berets on their heads.

[quote]DirtyM wrote:
hedo wrote:
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=8791

General Shinseki is thought of as a Soldiers General which is a high compliment in the Army.

This is wrong on a lot of levels. I find it insulting to ask a man who was wounded or injured in combat to pay for his care. I say this as a combat veteran.

I think it is typical of the attitude this administration has towards the military. Current and past members.

$900 million for Palestinian’s to build up their target base so Israel can blow them up again but cut the $500 million for veterans who were injured. What bullshit. Unfortunately typical for this administration.

Agreed.

However- our opinions differ on the former CSA. Not to hijack this thread, nor drag up a dead issue- but the issuing of black berets to everyone was not a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ decison; it was the wrong decision.

Instead of gimmicks to make everyone feel special (presto! you’re elite!); how about enforcing existing standards? That might go further than witnessing fat majors and the like walking around wearing unshaved, mal-formed berets on their heads.

[/quote]

I was no fan of that decision either.