T Nation

Very Low T and Very Low Vitamin D. Related?


#1

hi all,

new here. Ive been feeling pretty tired over the last two months. more so than EVER. so I decided to go see a doctor to test for T and thyroid levels. she also suggested testing for Vit D.

well, thryoid was fine,
T was 168 L
and Vit D was very very low at 10.8 ng/ML

im hesitant to start TRT as she says once Im on it, Im on it forever(she said normal t production after stoppage could take up to 2 years)

my question is: is there a link between low d and low t? If I increase D levels should I expect T to improve as well?

THANKS


ZTjames TRT log started March 2018
#2

There are some links to low-T from different health issues.

Almost all doctors are really bad at TRT, you need to read the stickies and know more than they do to manage these things, you cannot be passive.

Labs, post with ranges:
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH - must be done before any TRT is started
prolactin if <35
DHEA-S if >35
PSA if >40
CBC
hematocrit
AST/ALT
AM cortisol - at 8AM please
TSH
fT3
fT4

Thyroid lab ranges are useless and mislead doctors.
Post your existing thyroid labs with ranges

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Find tiny oil based caps, Vit-D3 5000iu, take 10,000iu per day
Take 25000iu for first 5 days
After next labs, might change to 5000iu/day

Do you have any problems with your bones?
Do you drink milk?
Are you not getting sun exposure at any time of the year?
Climate and darker completions reduce ability to make Vit-D3

Your body tries to store Vit-D3 made in summer and slowly converts to Vit-D25 which is an active steroid hormone needed for proper DNA expression and cellular function. The effects are very broad base and affect every part of your body as well as other hormone systems.

Where are you located? Affects options for diagnostics and treatment.

You can eval overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Many feel like shit with “normal” thyroid levels. Thyroid is more complex that T issues.

Blows to the head as well as severe whiplash can damage the pituitary and wreck T levels.


#3

Did your doctor give you a booster prescription for Vitamin D? It’s typically 50,000 IU for, I can’t remember, maybe a week or two. I was given one five years ago when my D3 levels were really low and within two days, my energy levels went through the roof.

Since fatigue is your symptom, I’d play with that first. If your doc didn’t prescribe a booster, just do it yourself with OTC D3. Get blood results in the 40-50 range before toying with other stuff.

Yes, T sounds way low (assuming 168 is ng/dL) but you’ll thank yourself for changing one thing at a time in the long run. Good luck man.


#4

hi, thanks for the info.

she gave me 50k iu dose once a week for 4 weeks. I have been sick with two things at the same time (probably due to low Vit D) so I cannot say if its working yet. I took the first dose on monday.

I told the doc I wanted to wait till my next Vit D checkup in 6 weeks and test my Testosterone again. this time I will ask for all the testosterone tests as well as estradiol.

Are you on T perchance?

thanks


#5

@KSman

here are my labs if they tell you anything

Thyroxine (T4) 8.2 4.5-12.0 (ug/dL)
Iron, Serum 98 38-169 (ug/dL)
Hemoglobin A1c 4.8 4.8-5.6 (%)
Vitamin B12 790 211-946 (pg/mL)
Triiodothyronine (T3) 102 71-180 (ng/dL)
Testosterone, Serum 168 L 348-1197 (ng/dL)
TSH 1.710 0.450-4.500 (uIU/mL)
Ferritin, Serum 879 H 30-400 (ng/mL)

F WBC 5.4 3.4-10.8 (x10E3/uL) DA
F RBC 4.90 4.14-5.80 (x10E6/uL) DA
F Hemoglobin 13.9 12.6-17.7 (g/dL) DA
F Hematocrit 42.4 37.5-51.0 (%) DA
F MCV 87 79-97 (fL) DA
F MCH 28.4 26.6-33.0 (pg) DA
F MCHC 32.8 31.5-35.7 (g/dL) DA
F RDW 13.3 12.3-15.4 (%) DA
F Platelets 288 150-379 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Neutrophils 48 (%) DA
F Lymphs 36 (%) DA
F Monocytes 10 (%) DA
F Eos 5 (%) DA
F Basos 1 (%) DA
Immature Cells DA
F Neutrophils (Absolute) 2.6 1.4-7.0 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Lymphs (Absolute) 1.9 0.7-3.1 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 0.1-0.9 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Eos (Absolute) 0.3 0.0-0.4 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 (x10E3/uL) DA
F Immature Granulocytes 0 (%) DA
F Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 (x10E3/uL) DA

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 10.9 L 30.0-100.0 (ng/mL)

F Glucose, Serum 127 H 65-99 (mg/dL) DA
F BUN 12 6-20 (mg/dL) DA
F Creatinine, Serum 0.96 0.76-1.27 (mg/dL) DA
F eGFR If NonAfricn Am 101 >59 (mL/min/1.73) DA
F eGFR If Africn Am 116 >59 (mL/min/1.73) DA
F BUN/Creatinine Ratio 13 8-19 DA
F Sodium, Serum 143 134-144 (mmol/L) DA
F Potassium, Serum 4.7 3.5-5.2 (mmol/L) DA
F Chloride, Serum 105 96-106 (mmol/L) DA
F Carbon Dioxide, Total 26 18-29 (mmol/L) DA
F Calcium, Serum 9.4 8.7-10.2 (mg/dL) DA
F Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 6.0-8.5 (g/dL) DA
F Albumin, Serum 4.4 3.5-5.5 (g/dL) DA
F Globulin, Total 2.5 1.5-4.5 (g/dL) DA
F A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5 DA
F Bilirubin, Total 0.6 0.0-1.2 (mg/dL) DA
F Alkaline Phosphatase, S 79 39-117 (IU/L) DA
F AST (SGOT) 39 0-40 (IU/L) DA
F ALT (SGPT) 25 0-44 (IU/L) DA


#6

T3 low, TSH up.
Have you been using iodized salt to support thyroid hormone production?
Thyroid is not fine, T3 well below mid-range.

Second request:
Eval overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Ferritin high: Avoid supplements that list iron and iron fortified bread, cereals, pasta etc


Haemochromatosis may present with the following clinical syndromes:[4]

Cirrhosis of the liver: Varies from zonal iron deposition[5] to fibrosis (cirrhosis).
**Diabetes** due to selective iron deposition in pancreatic islet beta cells leading to functional failure and cell death.[2][6]
Cardiomyopathy
Arthritis, from calcium pyrophosphate deposition in joints. The most commonly affected joints are those of the hands, particularly the knuckles of the second and third fingers.[7]
**Testicular failure**
Bronzing of the skin. This deep tan color, in combination diabetes from damage to the pancreas, is the source of a nickname for this condition: **"bronze diabetes"**.
Joint pain and bone pain[8]

I think that your very low T is thinning your blood, as expected, and masking the effects of too much iron.

Vitamin D: as discussed above

Glucose-127 was fasting?
Get A1C tested if you were fasting, otherwise you need to get fasting glucose tested!
Concern is diabetes

You really need to look into this ferritin issue. TRT will ramp up RBC and hematocrit may get high.
First, get a repeat lab for ferritin to know that you are not chasing something that is not there.

  1. Take action on ferritin, read the Wikipedia page.
  2. Explain glucose fasting or not.
  3. Repeat labs for ferritin, fasting glucose and A1C

Iron overload can also affect thyroid.


#7

thanks a bunch @KSman

I dont use any fancy schmancy sea salt or pink salt or whatever . I just assumed that regular table salt is always iodized.

so imagine my SHOCK and surprise to find out the my morton’s table salt is not iodized. I wonder if this was the cause of my thyroid problems.

to fix that Ive bought iodized salt and Im adding seaweed to my meals.

Im taking 10000iu of vit D every day in addition to the 50k iu a week prescription and getting as much sunlight as possible whenever its sunny here which is about 2x a week this time of year…

Im eating brazil nuts for sellenium and have stopped taking iron pills and added zinc and vit.E

result is I feel better than I have in years.

I will do a follow up test in 6 weeks and post the results.

ps. Ferritin may have been high because I was taking iron supplementation.


#8

Great news, you sound up-beat, not beat-up!

In Canada, all “table salt” must be iodized. In USA it is optional and both types of salt are on the same shelf in similar packaging and the consumer is not aware of any issues or concerns. The system is flawed. Now add the people who think that seal salt and pinks salt are natural … iodine deficiency is natural.


#9

I wonder how much morton saved by getting rid of iodine, or how much they got paid to remove it but its disgusting that they would take it out when they were the ones who pioneered it in the first place.

I wonder the extent of prescriptions and injections that could be avoided with us just having the right iodine in our systems.


#10

In USA, iodizing salt is optional, so they are also catering to those who think that iodine is a conspiracy and also catering to those who don’t know, don’t care or don’t read the labels.

I do think that its wrong, but I am a zealot about this already so no one would notice.

I remember been educated about iodized salt, probably in grade 5 health class [in Ontario Canada].

So to clarify, Morton never stopped making non-iodized salt. The added iodized salt product circa 1922.


#11

bringing this back up guys. i went for a new checkup( was sick and decided to get levels checked.
here are the old vs new numbers.

quite disappointed.

  1. im using iodized salt and eating seaweed almost everyday. how is my tsh higher?
    2.im getting as much sunlight as possible and taking 10k iu of Vit D a day and still low?
    3.Iron and Ferritin are lower but still sky high. how can I get this down quickly?
    4.Testosterone unfortunately is still very low.

any advice is APPRECIATED!!!

Thyroxine (T4) 8.2 4.5-12.0 (ug/dL) NEW 7.6
Iron, Serum 98 38-169 (ug/dL) NEW 66
Vitamin B12 790 211-946 (pg/mL) NEW 1069
Triiodothyronine (T3) 102 71-180 (ng/dL) NEW 88
Testosterone, Serum 168 348-1197 (ng/dL) NEW 253
TSH 1.710 0.450-4.500 (uIU/mL) NEW 1.860
Ferritin, Serum 879 30-400 (ng/mL) NEW 717
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 10.9 30.0-100.0 (ng/mL) NEW 23.3

F Glucose, Serum 127 65-99 (mg/dL) DA NEW 107


#12

Good news that your thyroid seems to be normal and you are addressing Vitamin D deficiency.

However, your T is very low and you could be diabetic. If you are overweight that would contribute to both problems. Please get a fasting blood draw and ask for lipids/metabolic panel. Also get A1C measured.

You may need TRT but first you need to find out why it is low - are there underlying health conditions? Are you taking medications? Hope you can work with a knowledgeable physician, get all the necessary blood tests, and get on track to improvement.


#13

Hey you probably couldn’t even imagine how similar are stories are. I started out with low vitamin D as well it was at 21ng during that time I had become very fatigue but I thought it was because I was working long shifts so being tired would be normal. So my doctors told me this is no big deal just go to the store and grab 2000 I.U of vitamin D and take it once a day. At the time I was 28 and didn’t really pay that much attention to my health but I did go to the store and I did grab the Vitamin D but I only took it for about 2 weeks and then never paid it any attention.

Well 6 months later me and my girlfriend were trying to have sex and for some reason for the first time In my life I couldn’t get a erection. I thought this was kind of weird but I have heard of guys having this problem sometimes so I wasn’t too worried about it. But I decided to go to the doctors just to check it out anyway. I told him what happen and he did some blood work it just so happen that my Vitamin D level came back and it dropped to 11ng and my testosterone was low.

So the doctor prescribed me 50,000 I.U once a week for 4 weeks.
So I finished the prescription and my Vitamin D levels came back up. Now during these whole 4 weeks I was under the influence that If I brought up my vitamin D level it would cure my erection problem because In my head the whole reason why my testosterone dropped is because of my vitamin D was so low. So I thought raising my Vitamin D level back up would fix everything but sadly after 4 weeks my Vitamin D level did raise back up but my testosterone levels did not.

But when I researched Vitamin D its actually a Vitamin and a Hormone all in one.
After that my whole life changed and I had to except the fact that maybe that the Vitamin D deficiency mite have done something to my body which caused my testosterone levels to drop and now they weren’t coming back up. It took me a while to accept this and I did everything in my power to see if there was a way out. I spent 7 months looking around if any doctors could give me something to help me but every single doctor didn’t believe that my Vitamin D level was connected to my Low T and my Testosterone at the time went to 317 and all the doctors considered that normal. It was a nightmare for me. But im glad to say im in a better place now


#14

Hey zsub thanks for the info.

I have made some major changes to my diet and will test again next month.

If I don’t see an increase in the think I will finally start trt


#15

Hey I was just checking in on you to see how things are going?

Were you able to bring the Vitamin D up and did it help Bring your T levels up?


#16

hi, I just received my test results today and I don’t know how to interprete it.

they switched the measurement. It used to be serum testosterone (348-1197 ng/dl)
now its Total Testosterone, LC/MS (264-916 ng/dl)

anyhow , I went from a low of 168 ng/dl serum testosterone, to now
317 ng/dl total testosterone lc/ms.
it says my T is now normal but I don’t know how to feel about it.


#17

Your testosterone is low. Did you ever investigate your high ferritin value?


#18

which value are you referencing? the one from today- 317?

I stopped eating foods with iron, and started giving blood and it seems to be helping the ferritin. its come down from the 900s to the 500s but is still HIGH


#19

Yes 317 even if it was 400 that’s low unless you are 85 year old.


#20

How could you feel well at the bottom of the (barrel) range when our president has higher T levels (446) than you at 71 years old? How old are you? If 317 is normal than how come endo’s like to see their patients above the 500 range? Hmmm… I wonder why…

The real answer is because that’s where low T symptoms seem to disappear.