T Nation

Very Low Dose Winstrol


#1

Hi guys,

I have some 50mg winstrol tabs left over from an old cycle. I'm not yet ready to do a full cycle with injects as I'm think I still have a ways to go with my training and diet. I'm currently in a phase where I'm trying to cut bodyfat with it being around 16% right now. I also am completely out of any PCT. I was wondering if taking a very low daily dose of 25mg, with half in the morning and half at night, would provide any type of boost to my training with the necessity of having to use a PCT. If so, how long could I use it for safely?

EDIT: If I ran a 2 week on 2 week off, would such a low does have any benefits whatsoever? 50mg dried out my joints which is why I would prefer to try the lower dose.


#2

Take all of it in the morning.

You can run lower dose, morning only, fast acting orals for quite some time with few problems or shutdown.


#3

Yes, I'd go 6 weeks with it. Then due to liver toxicity issues, take a few weeks off and decide if you want to keep going in 6 week periods, in which case I'd allow at least 6 weeks off, or if you'd like to try alternating 2 weeks on with 2 or more weeks off.

Cumulatively the 2 week cycles will, for the same number of weeks "on," do as well but it would take you approximately 10 weeks of 2 on / 2 off to see what you'd see in 6 weeks straight. If that time frame doesn't bother you, then fine, but most like to see substantial results from a method quickly rather than incrementally. With suitable-dosed 2 week cycles that is the case -- it is clear that something good was done -- but at this low dose, while I do expect it would eventually add up, you might not be sure anything much was happening at the 2 week point.


#4

Thanks for the reply, Westclock. Quite some time being how long exactly? And all this without any form of PCT being necessary?


#5

This is so weird... I only see Westclocks reply even though the main page says that Bill Roberts replied... then I replied to Westclock.... but all I see is my original post and Westclock's reply... nothing from Bill and not the two posts I just made... strange....


#6

I may have edited my post, which often causes a post to disappear for several minutes to half an hour, weirdly enough.


#7

Hi Bill, I see all the posts now, including my last two. So, to clarify, 6 weeks at 25mg upon waking and no PCT would be required?


#8

Yes, that would be suitable, assuming you don't have the joint issues at 25 mg/day that you did at the higher dose. There's no predicting there.


#9

I still have some of the anadrol tabs left, but even with the PCT I was using (nolva) it left me with some gyno that still hasn't gone away after nearly 10 months which is why I don't really want to take the drol at all. I'm wondering if anything can be done about the gyno at this point. It's very very minor.. but still.. it's uncomfortable and doesn't look very good.


#10

The only thing I know of, unfortunately, is surgery.

It certainly could be that I simply lack knowledge regarding protocols that are supposed to cure gyno, but at any rate I don't know of any such thing that gives much if any confidence.

My understanding is that there is some tissue which has been permanently changed.

If the avatar is your pic, it certainly isn't a bad case though I definitely understand not wanting any. I wouldn't have guessed.


#11

Thanks Bill. I'll give the 6 weeker a try with just the winnie. I'm going to do some research to find out if nolva, arimidex, etc. can actually help to shrink minor gyno like that. If anyone has any experience with that please feel free to chime in.

I'm also planning on doing the V-Diet in the very near future and wonder if taking 25mg in the morning during the diet would help to maintain muscle mass even further. Aaahhh... the things we do to our bodies! :o)


#12

that avatar is Frank McGrath. I think 99% of us wish we looked like him and had his strength!


#13

Thanks! I didn't know.

I never want to make an assumption that an impressive physique cannot be a picture of the person posting, because sometimes it is. Yet it seems also a pretty standard practice to have avatars that represent goals or just good pictures of whatever kind. So one doesn't know till asking.


#14

I have heard anecdotal reports that letro will "cure" minor gyno.


#15

Letro will shrink minor gyno.

As will Nolva.

Alot of people have even had good results with the prohormone havoc because it is an AI.

Im not sure if gyno can be "cured" without surgery, once a mass starts to build and the condition goes beyond a puffy nipple.

But it can certainly be shurnk down and "practically" cured to the point that you cant see or notice it in many cases.

Try nolva first.


#16

Yeah, that photo of Frank McGrath made my jaw drop the first time I saw it... and when I signed up on the forums and had a chance to use an avatar that pic was the first one that came to mind :o)

I'll try to get my hands on some nolva and see if that does the trick. It's so minor that it really isn't that much of an issue but, still, it would be nice if there was even less of it!


#17

OP, PCT is to expedite the recovery process. For example, if you are not going to recover at all..(for whatever reason) a PCT will not likely help. I am aware this doesn't apply to you but the point does - or will.

So winstrol at 25mg/day is suppressive to the HPTA but not to the degree a larger cycle would be - say 500mg Test/wk which is around 70mg/day.
Or not to the degree a nor-test drug is due to its different actions.

So with that in mind you will have minimal suppression to the HPTA which will allow it to recover really quite fast post cycle - even if you dosed 2x/day over the full 6 weeks. By fast i would guess around 7-10 days at the most. It is a guess as i have not done it.

It will most definitely provide a boost - whether it is a boost you will see i highly doubt it, in part due to your body fat percentage.


#18

BTW - if aquiring Nolva for gyno then why are you designing a cycle based on not having PCT? At the very least buy enough so you can run 20mg for a week or so after the winny run.

You also say you have to improve your training and diet before doing a 'full cycle with injects' - which on the surface appears to show you have a good mentality - but to be honest if this is the case, doing an oral only cycle is no different, and undermines the statement you made about waiting due to realising your own shortcomings.


#19

Hi Brook,

To clarify the diet issue, I have a fairly easy time dieting and training to cut bodyfat which is what I'm doing now. I'd like to get down to the single digits before I start trying to build mass again. So I'm eating small meals during the day, very low carbs, 2 X ECA stack during the day, with 25mg of winnie in the morning. I should have no problem attaining my goals this way.

It's my mass phases that I have an issue with.. particularly with eating enough food during the day. So I will only start a cycle of injects once my bodyfat is down in single digits and my training and diet (for mass) is spot on. Until then, I'll make due with tiny 'boosts' as I'm doing now.

Does that sound a little better? :o)


#20

Bill I have some winstrol depot, only thing I can aquire, I would absolutley love to run the 2 week on 2 week off cycles they sound great especially since I have never done any AAS before. What kind of dosage would I run for a winstrol only cycle?