Very Low Cholosterol: Is it Good?

Diet and Nutrition
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[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Razorslim wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]supa power wrote:

[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
I agree with you and you raise a good point. I just feel statins are too damaging and prescribed WAY to liberally. In my father’s case his cholesterol wasn’t alarming, his triglycerides were a little high. I feel he could’ve changed that with diet. Now he is having an increasingly difficult time with his short-term memory. It’s difficult for me to see that and not get angry. I just see it leading down a road that doesn’t end well.[/quote]

My father is also on Lipitor after getting a stent put in 6 years ago. Simmilar to your fathers case his cholesterol was not that high and could easily be improved with some fish oil and carefull diet IMO. I see that in the last 2 years he has developed a slight tremor and also his facial hair has gone from being a full beard to very weak and patchy. I think it is a poor drug and a huge money scam, however things could be much worse I guess, this is just the world we live in. Bring on stem cell technology![/quote]

Here is the point that everyone is having a hard time with. High cholesterol levels DON’T matter in heart disease. They are NOT a risk factor. So why is it ok to accept these side effects to lower cholesterol when it is irrelevant??? Why in the hell would someone do that to themselves. If you accept that “its just the world we live in” you are going to continue to allow bad science to harm you and your loved one’s health. Do not accept this. Educate yourself on this subject and then take action. The side effects of statins for the most part are irreversible and debilitating. I know from personal experience; my father is now crippled from their use. Don’t let that happen to your father.
[/quote]

Thankyou MODOk for your great insight, though terribly sorry to hear about your father’s condition.

Unfortunately the typical scenario is man goes to doctor for cholesterol check, is given lipitor after “high” choesterol reading. Lipitor drives down the cholesterol which inhibits hormone production as well as cellular function. Man starts feeling bad and has lowered libido. Goes back to doctor. Doctor prescribes Paxil and Viagra, for depression and ED. Now patient is securely tied into the pharmecutical industry.

I agree with no statins but am curious that the life extension foundation recommends low doses for treatment of inflammation.

Just wish I could find a good doc who did not buy into the cholesterol myth[/quote]

The reason why they recommend low dose statins for secondary prevention of MI and for inflammation is statins inhibition of a substance called nuclear factor- kappa B. It is a MAJOR component of inflammation in the human body. Statins (through mevalonate pathway inhibition) suppress the production of NF-kB. This decreases inflammation GLOBALLY, including in inflamed endothelial tissue, which is the sole reason why statins show positive outcomes in the trials on secondary prevention (those who have already had a heart attack). Heart disease is an inflammatory disease, NF-kB just so happens to be inhibited by a drug that also decreases cholesterol, which was given to patients to lower the cholesterol, but ended up having a positive benefit from a completely different substance. It rreally is a very bizarre coincedence and twist of fate, but it is absolutely the mechanism of action of statins in heart disease. Google “nf-kb and statins” and you will see that it is accepted completely by the scientists now.

The bad part of the story is, inhibiting nf-kb is far too dangerous to all the other biochemical interactions that nf-kb is involved in. It is involved in MANY things. Inhibiting it very much suppresses your immune system and exposes you to proliferation of cancer cells at a much higher rate. All in all, the decrease in inflammation through this mechanism is not worth the long term consequences on other biochemical interactions for the vast majority of people. Take a baby aspirin instead. Seriously.[/quote]

Yea, I just want to restate that NF-kB is a central component to a tremendous amount of pathways. I work in interferon and cytokine research and when we hypothesize why certain things do what they do and NF-kB always comes up in the discussion. It’s kind of a joke like “What is NF-kB not involved in?” But thanks MODOK for some great info on here.

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And MODOK I agree with you that high cholesterol isn’t correlated to heart attacks. I was simply saying in my father’s case that his cholesterol wasn’t considered that high by conventional wisdom. I was just trying to point out that the doctor didn’t even really have a reason to put him on the drug. Just wanted to clear that up.

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[quote]Razorslim wrote:
Oh and the cholesterol test does not even measure cholesterol. The equation is Total Cholesterol = HDL + LDL + triglycerides. HDL and LDL are not cholesterol but actually they transport cholesterol into and out of the liver. Triglycerides are not cholesterol but an indication of the level of simple carbs you consume. LDL is calculated, not directly measured. The number is meaningless. To actually measure LDL and the different size LDL particles, which is actually what matters, is supposedly expensive.[/quote]

You don’t have to directly measure LDL particle size; if your HDL is high and Trigs are low, then your LDL particles will be big and fluffy = no death from heart disease.

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[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Even if I didn’t find out a really good way to increase my good cholesterol, I learned a lot here. The take home point I got was don’t take statins.

Any blood pressure lowering meds I should avoid with a passion?[/quote]

No such thing as good or bad cholesterol; HDL and LDL are both TRANSPORTERS OF cholesterol. (see my previous post ^, and what MODOK said.) You can raise HDL by eating organic animal fat, and lower trigs by restricting grains and sugar. As MODOK has indicated, total cholesterol and the LDL number are NOT predictive of heart disaese.

Most Americans do NOT eat “too much salt”; most “high blood pressure” is a result of DEFICIENCY of magnesium (prob need a supplement) and/or potassium (get from food). Also, drink enough water.

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[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]Bonesaw93 wrote:
And MODOK I agree with you that high cholesterol isn’t correlated to heart attacks. I was simply saying in my father’s case that his cholesterol wasn’t considered that high by conventional wisdom. I was just trying to point out that the doctor didn’t even really have a reason to put him on the drug. Just wanted to clear that up.[/quote]

I know we agree Bone, I just get worked up on this subject because it is SO important and virtually no one has a clue about it. In the next 10-15 years there is going to be a lot of suffering come about because of the ubiquitous intake of this garbage. It really drives me insane.

The most frustrating part is the gigantic bully pull pit that our society gives physicians to spread their ignorance. Ironically, I just talked to my dad an hour ago and, although I had convinced him with all of this science that statins were horrible and cholesterol wasn’t a risk factor over a year ago and he stopped taking them, he just informed me that he went BACK on the fucking statins two weeks ago because his new PCP said his cholesterol was “a little high”. So my own father went back on them. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me, but thats what we are up against.[/quote]

I’m sorry to hear that. The brainwashing we have been subjected to over the years on fats and cholestrol is staggering.
I just had a long chat with my father ragarding the lipitor and he seems to be finally taking notice, however he is stuborn as a mule and very “old school” in that he does exactly what the doctor says without questioning it.
Do you think high dose fish oil could replace the lipitor?
Bear in mind that his cholestrol wasn’t high in the first place, it was just something he was told to take along with aspirin after he had a stent inserted into an artery.
I greatly appreciate the info you have provided, many thanks.