T Nation

Very High E2, Sick of the Symptoms, Doctors Aren't Helping

TSH is increased with larger amounts of iodine. This is not a problem. You could www the problem, but the reasons are not going to help you.

fT4 was well below midrange.
fT3 is a bit above midrange.

rT3 unknown, but if temperatures are low with good fT3, we suspect that rT3 is blocking fT3.

Right now, I’m taking .2ml/mg EOD. I just push on the tongue and then take a sip of water.
I take my first labs tomorrow on TRT. I hope to adjust and go from there.

my first 5 weeks of this was amazing (back in February) if only it could just be that way forever lol.

Just took first dose of Arimidex .125mg (or as close as possible) used a pill cutter to half the pill, then razor blades after… but man it is hard to cut down to .125 from .25mg.

Plan is to try this dose out EOD… or should I go E3D?

Hopefully I feel some change and can notice it. Will keep updating here.

Update: have taken second dose of .125mg, morning erections more frequent, energy up, slight libido raise. However I have now just been prescribed arimidex! Read below :slight_smile:

@KSman you might find it positive to read this experience I just had.

I’ve just come back from seeing the new doctor. He was insane. In a good way.
All I said to him was my libido and erections turned off light a light switch. His response “you are hypo-estrogenic”. I was shocked, I asked how he knows that. He said he can just tell by my build.
He looked at my labs, all of them. He said test is way too high, trying to compensate for that high E2, which is also why my testicles ache. He said they are overworking, and running hot hence the aching. With my E2 he said my levels were “bullshit” (288pmol/L) and that they should be around 60-80pmol/L. He also confirmed that the E2 test I have been having is very sensitive, and said the lab range (<250) is to be disregarded.

Now for the scary part. He said I am basically going through a type of menopause a woman would and that if left untreated all sorts of bad stuff will happen, including enlarged prostate, diabetes and eventually cancer.
I told him I bought Anastrozole illegally, and my dosage. He was not bothered and actually applauded me. He prescribed me Arimidex. 0.5mg EOD, and wants me to take it for 6 months with follow up bloods all the way.

He has been one of the world leaders in studying estrogen in men, so lucky he happens to live here. He says that following 6 months of Arimidex, in 99% of the cases he has treated, by the end of the therapy, the E2 levels remain low. He seemed confident on that one.

Wow I am so shocked right now, all I have dealt with is shitty doctors, and here is one that confirmed I am on the right path, reinforced what I am doing as therapy, and is positive I will feel better soon.
Just a little update for you guys, hope this stuff helps anyone else suffering like I am.

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It take 5-7 days for a constant anastrozole dose to reach a final blood levels, so you should not make changes day by day based on you feel. You can judge things in 7 days.

Any digestive issues. Some get adverse gut flora that recycle estrogen metabolites in liver bile back into estrogens that are then absorbed in the gut. Also liver may not be clearing estrogens because of interference by alcohol, or medications. There can be liver pathologies. Labs for AST/ALT can show for some liver conditions, but you need to avoid resistance training and sore/injured muscles as that can elevate results. Some sun-screens interfere with hormones.

Your doc is weird. Maybe you can direct him in a good direction.

@KSman I barely ever use sunscreen. Liver values he looked at and so did I, it seems my liver is working well in fact.

Why weird? This doc is the only positive experience I’ve ever had who is willing to actually help me. The fact that he considers High E2 in men as a problem is good enough for me. The rest just brush you off. He said should be in 60-80 range. That converts to about 20pg/ml.

As for reporting how I feel within a few days, I’m just stating what I’m noticing. Do you think 0.5mg EOD is too much? How can I be as careful as possible.

Also I want to ask you … I’ve seen you say a lot it takes up to 10 days or more for your brain to adjust to the changes when taking anastrozole. What do you mean by that? Brain needs to adjust to lower E2 levels?

Exactly. Estrogens have many negative effects on the brain/mood/libido for most guys when estrogen levels are elevated - or too low.

Your docs rational seems odd, maybe how you relay it. Yes, lower E2. But you should be looking for the cause of high E2.

With your T levels, you probably need upward of 1.0mg anastrozole per week. You can’t make shotgun changes based on how you feel unless you really feel suddenly crashed [low E2]. You can test E2 for dose corrections and aim for 22pg/ml - 80 pmol/L

Please see: stopthethyroidmadness.com/mthfr/

Were you tested or doc is speculating. When most have the mutations, who is the mutant?

Yeah I do agree. To me it’s a mystery. My liver values are perfect, every other blood value is great, the only thing that is elevated is E2. Right now though, I’m just so happy to be feeling better.

Few other things to note which could (but probably not) effect Estradiol:

  • I quit smoking after almost a pack day for 6 years, it’s been ages now haven’t touched it. Around that time is when my libido crashed. Some say cigarettes produce a mild AI affect, can mask stuff, and have an effect on the endocrine system.
  • Vit D was low have been supplementing 5000iu daily.
  • I have been confirmed with a mutated MTHFR gene (not sure if you have heard of it?) which affects efficacy of methylation pathways, some of which also get rid of estrogens. I have been supplementing with methyl B vitamins to raise my levels daily. Really seems like I’m responding to the Anastrozole quite well. Wouldn’t say my libido is back to normal but it’s raising, I can tell by my thoughts during the day. I feel like I’m regaining my vitality back. I’ve also been more energetic, if that is a coincidence or not I don’t know.

Well my next dose is in 24 hours but not sure if I should reduce to .25 or not. This morning my wood was so hard it woke me up, and didn’t go away from 20 minutes - that’s something I have not experience in a year or more - I forgot what that felt like.

I think I’ll take the .5 and monitor how I feel closely. I’ve read it is harder (not impossible) to crash E2 with an intact HPTA … is that correct?

HPTA can be crashed in many cases. The exception was shown in early research on young healthy males where 1mg/day did not totally crash E2.

Why? - I figured it out, mostly

Their HPTA was producing high amount of LH creating high T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot deal with that. I like this idea, but there are some weaknesses in that argument that suggest that something else was going on, perhaps a lack of T–>E2 inside the hypothalamus and pituitary. So not 100% solved.

But for everyone in a TRT context or weak T levels, they can get crashed E2.

Glad to here that you have some positive results and expectations.

I like the impaired enzyme E2 metabolization idea with mutated enzymes.
BTW, I orders two kits from 23andme.com today.
I spent too many hours looking at MTHFR gene issue.
I also tried to find any such connection explaining why some guys need 1/4th amount of anastrozole - failed.
I did see some references that explain hyper T metabolizers who need three times more T.
We are full of deviations from whatever normal is. As long as these are not fatal, these get passed on through the generations, until now when there can be some fatal drug metabolization issues.

If we could get some guys here who are anastrozole over-responders to do the 23andme.com reports, we might possibly see what causes that. But the result would have no practical benefit other than been an over-responder would indicate the mutant enzyme that might then have implications for other meds etc.

Here’s an update to how stuff has been going:

It is now 11 days of me being on Arimidex. 6 seperate doses of Anastrozole.

In a nutshell:
Been feeling heaps better. Libido has shot up, spontaneous erections up, morning wood shot up too. That’s not to say haven’t had any ups and downs but I’ll detail that below as I go through my dosages.

Dosage 1&2 (0.125mg each time, 3 days apart)
This is what I started on before I got the prescription. I didn’t feel much to be honest, but slight libido increase and had boners every morning.

Dosage 3 (0.5mg)
Doc prescribes me adex. Says take 0.5mg EOD. This dosage was insane, that day sexual thoughts gave me random boners at work, I was horny as ****, and the next day I woke up with the hardest morning wood. Was advised I was probably at my sweet spot so I drop dose down.

Dosage 4&5 (0.25mg each)
This is where I started to feel the effects drop a bit. Morning wood didn’t last as long as when I did the 0.5 and libido wasn’t as full on, although one of hear days I masturbated four times in a day. Keep in mind I’m doing this mostly for testing.

Dosage 6 (today, 0.5mg)
Decided to go back up, and behold… libido shoots up. I popped boners while doing everyday tasks. Can’t remember last time that happened.

I have labs coming in another day so keen to see where I am at.

I think I can tolerate arimidex quite well, so far 0.5 is feeling like the better dosage to use. But I obviously can’t say what will happen after continued use of 0.5mg. I’m monitoring my body so closely and adjusting and fine tuning the dosage and frequency all the time. I refuse to crash my E2.

Maybe I can move to 0.25 ED, or 0.5mg E3D. I’ll probably end up trying every combo until I get it right.

Right now though, just happy to see improvements in erection quality, libido, energy, strength and even mentality for that matter.

E2 is a bitch. If you’re like me and you have high natty test and high natty E2, fix that shit. You’ll thank yourself later.

Ohhh I fully understand lol, my labcorp e2 came back after i almost had a nervous breakdown(actually i did have a breakdown), I am still trying to get rid of the water weigh(only been 8 days). I was only able to see Lapcorp test results for a few seconds in Dr office, but i think normal for male was 20-36(not 100% sure exact) but mine was 137 and that was from rest 5 days prior. This armidex saved me. I was higher estrogen than a normal woman.

Haha I know how bad is it!!!

What dosage protocol do you use? I’m having trouble dialing mine in.

I’m already down to 19pg/ml… this stuff works so fast! No ill effects though, wood and libido still there.

Are you natty test as well?

You need to be consistent. You don’t want wild peaks and valleys. Then after a few weeks, get labs. Then use this formula with ADEX/AI:

new dose= old dose x (current e2/optimal e2)

Target an E2 of 22. You can use this to dial it in.

I am quite sure I’ve gone to low now. I’ve lost wood, libido, Dick is a noodle. No joint pain though.

Looks like I’ll have to stop Adex and wait for it all to come back then go back on a lower dose like 0.125EOD instead of 0.25 EOD or even E3D

I have never had a no wood situation, even with a total T of 96 when I started TRT. Now I do .50 Anastrozole with every 50mg injection of T, every 3.5 Days. I went from my Drs bad dosing amount of 400mg every 2 weeks with no Anastrozole. (Never do that btw). Only been 2 weeks since I discovered I was super high E2 from that T amount/schedule my Dr prescribed. So I haven’t rushed to get a lab, but being 2 weeks now, think I should be OK to get lab without wasting money. I think I am starting to know my body now, if I am right, my T should be in the 250-300 range and E2 still high. But I am doing baby steps, want this done right and slowly increase. One thing though immediately apparent, erections are like I remembered when younger and my arms always seem pumped up like after lifting weights, even if I don’t lift. Recovery after the 137 e2 level took basically this past 2 weeks To recover, really messed up my body/mind.

Hey @KSman would really appreciate your advice on how to proceed from here.

Back story: doc had me on 0.5mg Adex EOD. In almost a 3 week period, I only took two 0.5mg doses with the majority 0.25mg but still managed to crash my E2. I think I am an over responder. In the first week of Arimidex I felt amazing, libido high… boners boners boners. Then it disappeared.

Well I got my results back after 8 days of no Arimidex and E2 was still crashed. I have also confirmed this is the sensitive test.

LH: didn’t even show up, wasn’t even a number was blank?
FSH: 5.0miu/l
E2: <44 (99-200) pmol/L
Testosterone: 13.3 (12-32) nmol/L (10 days ago was 37.1 what the?)
Free T: 297 (260-740) nmol/L (10 days ago was 829 also what the?)

So E2 is crashed. Should I lay off all arimidex for a while? I was thinking by now I would have come back up. How long should it take for someone not on TRT to return to normal? Also test levels are low now? 10 days ago they were high? This test was done at 9:45am as opposed to 8am the other one. And the night before I was out drinking until late, probably slept a total of 4 hours.

Could that affect my test levels that much? Don’t see how it can be so high consistently for that many tests and then drop like that. Either way my E2 is low. I took a 0.125mg dose yesterday because I had some wood, libido and thought I may now have been to high. I clearly can’t read my own body yet.

Any advice on how to proceed now? I’m confident that I can feel like the first week and a half on arimidex. I just don’t know how to get there.

Going out drinking and barely sleeping before getting this kind of blood work done is definitely being incredibly counterproductive for interpreting the situation. I can imagine even the manliest of men will suddenly have completely crashed levels the morning after. I feel it should be common sense to not drink the night before, and to limit alcohol as much as possible when trying to solve these hormone problems. You gotta commit and find balance.

I would say recover from your night out, have some healthy food and lots of water for a few days and then get your blood screened properly.

I don’t have T problems, I was more wondering if the drinking and lack of sleep could skew blood test results a fair bit. If that was possible. I know it couldn’t be good for it, and I probably shouldn’t have done the blood test that day.

I have E2 problems however, it being high and having trouble dosing arimidex.

Sorry, should have said “hormone problems.” Alcohol is broken down in the liver and a huge contributor to elevated estrogen. Yes it will skew with test results a lot.