T Nation

Very High E2, Sick of the Symptoms, Doctors Aren't Helping


#1

I've posted here before but that was when I thought my main issue was low test. A few repeated bloods tell me that test is normal-high, and recently discovered my E2 is high and has been getting higher. Doctors (normal and Endocrinologists) are not listening. So I've just purchased Anastrozole 1 x 50mg illegally.

Have had the following symptoms for the past year, seem to be getting worse:
- Little to no libido
- Weak or sometimes difficult to maintain erections
- Sometimes absolutely 0 morning erections
- Weight gain around abdominal area and chest despite lifting heavy 4 x a week and playing intense sports 2 x a week.
- Mood issues

I'm 23 and am having a hard time figuring out what is causing it. But I am at the point where I just want to give the Anastrozole a go just to see if I feel better.
A couple things which may help:
- My doc said I have a MTHFR gene mutation which is screwing with my methylation pathways - has put me on a special methylated B vitamins
- I may be borderline Hypothyroid, so am on ThyroPlex, a thyroid support complex as per my doctor.

Here are my latest bloods (when I say previous it is from a test two months before):

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin D - 56 nmol/l (60-160)

TSH - 7.7 mIU/L (0.5-4) (I'm not worried about this because I was at 2.0 mIU/l 2 month before hand, but I started taking Iodine 50mgs everyday and believe this is why it was high. Doctor said to stop because it probably isn't needed so have for now. The ThryoPlex has Iodine in it anyway.
Free T4 - 12 pmol/L (previous 16)
Free T3 - 4.9 pmol/L (previous 5.0)

Testosterone - 32 nmol/L (previous 25 nmol/L) (8.0-32.0)
SHBG - 39 nmol/L (previous 32 nmol/L) (10-45)
Free Test - 0.7 nmol/L (previous 0.6 nmol/l) (0.2-0.6)

Serum Vitamin B12 - 400 pmol/L (>250)
Serum Folate - 37.3 nmol/L (6.5-45.0)

DHEAS - 6.7 umol/L (2.5-13)

Fasting Insulin - 6.4 mU/L (0-12)
Fasting Glucose - 4.4 nmol/L (3.2-5.5)
Plasma Homocysteine - 6.6 umol/L (4-14)

FSH - 5 IU/L (<12)
LH - 5.4 IU/L (10)
Oestradiol (E2) - 288 pmol/L = 78.45pg/ml (previous 185 pmol/L = 50.12pg/ml)

My latest doctor does agree it is high, but he doesn't know much about E2s effects in males. I am also 100% natural by the way, and never have used any exogenous test or anything else for that matter.

It has been a whole year of this shit, and now I am getting fed the F up with it. I am 23, I have girls who I can get with but can't because my body isn't working the way it is meant to, it really kills me mentally.

Maybe my liver isn't clearing E2, maybe this MTHFR mutated gene is the culprit, but I need to know if Anastrozole will work. Planning to start on .25 EOD, see how I feel. and ramp up to .5mg EOD if nothing improves. With a blood test 6 weeks in. Sound ok?

Anastrozole can bring my E2 down but how the hell do I get to the source of why it is high? It's hard when I can't find a doctor that will support me. If anyone has anything to say, would be greatly appreciated, as like I said I am over these symptoms and just want to get back to the way I used to be.


#2

If I'm reading your T-levels correctly - you are at the top of the range, which would explain why your E is so high?

A few questions - are you taking any T-supplements (whether natty, Androgel, Test-C, etc.?) also, do you carry a lot of fat around your gut (that's where Estrogen is stored and aromatized in men).

Other than that - your protocol for Arimidex looks good from what I've read, assuming you can trust the source. Go slow as you laid out - .25 eod and then .5 and then get bloods done after two weeks to re-assess - would be my recommendation. Assuming you have a legit AI - you should feel better very quickly - Arimidex works fast.


#3

I am at the top of the range yes. Sometimes I also exceed the range. So I naturally have good test levels but what good is that if I can't benefit from it? To me it doesn't explain why the E2 is high, my body is making too much when it shouldn't.

In answer to your questions: I'm 100% natty, no steroids, no test supplements. All I take is whey protein and vitamins. Yes I store most my fat in my stomach, and it's been on the increase while this issue has been around. I find it hard to lose fat there too. I'm about 20% bf. I've always had a bit of extra fat but my libido and erections were always amazing, I never had an issue, it was all really good. The extra fat would be leading to more aromatisation but I believe it isn't the culprit.

Keen to see what happens but also scared. Need to find a way to get a doctor to agree to measure my E2 while I do this


#4

As T-levels increase, so does the aromatization of Estrogen. It's not too surprising that your E2 levels are so high with high T. Although your BF is not horrible - it's still too high (especially for someone with such high T levels and can contribute to high E levels. try to drop that to 15% or under - I've had good success with high intensity training (incorporating sprinting / kettle bells, etc.) and the BF will drop like a stone. (Google the Sprint 8 workout for a good one).

In any case the Arimidex should knock down the E levels. Some guys also take Aromasin 12.5 mg EOD or or every 3rd day - but go with Arimidex and make sure you get bloods done after 2 weeks. You have probably read that some guys are high responders to AI's - so a little can go a long way. FYIW - I'm dosing Arimidex the same - as I am just starting a restart protocol - and am taking it slow - .25 EOD then .5 EOD and go from there.


#5

Soon as you take that first pill your gonna feel better in possibly in an hour. That stuff is really powerful. I'm an over responder. I have to cut one pill into 16 little pieces and take 1/16th at a time.


#6

I hope so!

Question... does anyone know how I can tell if this E2 test was "sensitive". Where I'm from this seems like the only test doctors have ordered. Simply says Oestradiol (E2)


#7

The lab result would clearly say sensitive if it was a sensitive test. Where do you live? You might be able to purchase arimidex online and purchase your blood test online aswell.


#8

I live in Australia. What would be different about the sensitive test? Would it be lower or higher?


#9

The sensitive test is supposed to be more accurate and lower. They say it's usually 10-20 pg/ml lower. So in your case, best case scenario is that you are at 58pg/ml which is still very high. The ranges here are around 42pg/ml MAX and most people would say that the sweet spot is approximately 22 pg/ml.


#10

Cannot work without lab ranges.
Please supply for the thyroid labs.

You can take 2-6mg total iodine per week as a maintenance dose.
Check oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky to see how you are doing.
Thyroid can explain mood and fat gain.

Try 0.5mg/week anastrozole in divided doses.
Be aware of anastrozole over-responders from the stickies.


#11

The ranges are
TSH (0.5-4.0)mIU/L
Free T4 (10-25) pmol/L
Free T3 (3.1-5.4) pmol/L

I am suspect of my oral thermometer consistently giving lower than normal readings. I do not have anyone to test on, so I am about to buy another. One thing is for certain, the 3-4 weeks of 50mg Lugols drove my TSH from 2.0 > 7.7 ... why is that?

I think I am going to try start off lower than that actually. 0.125mg EOD - especially since I am natural and my test is okay. Just to see how it goes.

How can I found out if my liver isn't clearing E2 properly? What sort of lifestyle factors can I look into? I drink and have had some recreational drugs (like cocaine) on occasion over the past 3 years. Nothing serious but I've still had it. Could these sort of lifestyle things come into play?

Also, @shape_shifter what do you mean I will feel better within an hour? What should I expect to feel.

My Arimidex should arrive here tomorrow. Plan is to get bloods Saturday and begin next weeks with 2 week follow up!


#12

That's how fast it starts working for me anyway if I'm way to high in E2.


#13

Yeah that's good! But I meant what do you 'feel' that makes you think "oh yeah, the arimidex is definitely working" just wanna know what I should look out for.


#14

well for me when I have high E2 I feel stress, no libido, dont hang low, nuts crawl up and hide. After taking the adex within the hour stress stops, more blood will be in penis while its flacid, thoughts of sex will give chubs etc.. For me though it seems I have to take it 24 hours after my shot, I guess its because adex works super fast and test takes longer to peak. But im still playing with my adex dose.


#15

That's interesting. What about urination for you? Frequent or not when high? Also do you experience nipple sensitivity?

Main symptoms for me is low libido, can get it up sometimes but the desire isn't there as much as it normally is I have to force myself (from when I remember being 'normal' I was always ready to go, no issues), sometimes I have night sweats, I wake up during the night, on occasion my nipples tingle (but not often, no signs of gyno), lack of energy where I usually fall asleep for a nap every single day, and feeling like your head is in a fog.

One thing I absolutely don't experience is infrequent urination. I piss quite a bit, but I also drink a fair bit of water so I don't know if that is something to dwell over since water retention is a symptom of high E2.

Thanks for that, least I know what to look out for. I will be posting here as a sort of log just incase anyone in the future comes here has high E2 and isn't on TRT like me.


#16

urination hasnt been an issue but I also drink alot of water, neither has nipples. I dont sleep well right now because I stress out about libido, lack of not being ready to go at a moments notice. Hopefully I figure out the right dose for me soon.


#17

So same as me with urination and nipples. No issue.

And same with the libido thing! Recently had a girl ready to go but couldn't get things going. Stuff like that really kills me internally because I know I should and want to in my mind.

What E2 levels and dosage regime are you doing? Nevertheless I hope you find the sweet spot. Good luck man.


#18

My E2 was just tested at 38, the typical goal is to get it to 22. I think im an over responder to adex meaning ive crashed twice before once on a dose of .25 and the second time on 1/8th, thats cutting the .25 in half with a razor. I only just now got 1/16th to not crash me this week, but I dont think its quite enough. So for me Im using a razor to cut a whole tab into four pieces then cut each piece two more times making it 1/16th. But for you I'd start with the typical dose .25 and go from there. Everyone one is different some take it every other day some take it twice a week with each shot and Im taking it twice a week 24 hour after my shot, but i'm still working on my dose.


#19

Take 1mg of Adex and delute with 1ml of water or vodka.
Get an oral syringe from the supermarket pharmacy. They have it listed by the .1ml.
.1ml=.1mg Just make sure you shake well before drawing the syringe.
I bought a 4ml glass container on ebay. Last time I did it, I mixed three 1mg tablets with 3ml vodka. The .1ml=.1mg is still the same. Then I store the glass bottle in the perscription bottle just to make sure my girls cant get into it and store it in a safe place out of the way.

My natural E2 was
ESTRADIOL, ENHANCED Range: 0.0-39.8 Value: 49.5
before starting TRT.


#20

@ohiodude thanks man, so how many drops are you using and how often? under tongue?