T Nation

Very High Cholesterol

Im a 32yr old male. 5’8 190lbs (id say about 20%bf.) Ive been on the Anabolic Diet for a couple of months (with occasional pigouts instead of carb ups.) Ive lost 10 lbs and am in better shape than ive been in over a year. I’ve recently been getting dizzy spells, so I decided to buy a home cholesterol test to see where I was at.

Well, I almost broke the device. My total C was at 300 or so. It was at 300 or so the last time I got it checked about 2yrs ago. I remember the ldl/hdl ratio being very good and my triglycerides were fine.

My question is, wtf should I do now? I refused statins a couple of years ago, and I dont think im going to change my mind any time soon. Ive decided to change my training a bit utilizing giant sets and some moderate/high intensity cardio to burn some more body fat and get into better cardiovascular condition (first workout actually felt great.Got really winded after the 3rd exercise of each giant set.)

Ive also modified my diet eating less saturated fats and more “healthy” fats.Fpr instance, rather than my typical breakfast of 3 whole eggs, a few slices of bacon and some almonds, im now just eating a protein shake with some natural peanut butter and greens+. Im also upping my fish oil supplementation to 6 grams a day (from 2.) Does this sound like a sound strategy? I know many of you are going to say “eggs and bacon dont raise cholesterol, etc,” but I have to change something in my diet because my cholesterol levels arent getting any lower. Am I just overreacting?

My dad has had near 300 cholesterol for as long as I remember, always stressed over it, and is currently a relatively health 74yr old. Thanks for reading this overly long post.

Hey.

About the eggs… There always has been that myth about them causing high cholesterol levels (due to the fact that they themselves are high in cholesterol) however, due to a recent report we can see that when you eat 3 or more eggs a day produced larger sized cholesterol particles … This means that the larger LDL’s have a harder time enetering artery walls as well as the fact that HDL’s are more effecient at sweeping existing LDL?s out of the blood stream. All that to say I dont know if the problem was inherent in your egg eating.

If you want a good, natural way to health your cholesterol level to decrease, try green tea extracts. They’ve been shown to help a lot!

hope that helps.

[quote]AllBizNiz wrote:
Im a 32yr old male. 5’8 190lbs (id say about 20%bf.) Ive been on the Anabolic Diet for a couple of months (with occasional pigouts instead of carb ups.) Ive lost 10 lbs and am in better shape than ive been in over a year. I’ve recently been getting dizzy spells, so I decided to buy a home cholesterol test to see where I was at.

Well, I almost broke the device. My total C was at 300 or so. It was at 300 or so the last time I got it checked about 2yrs ago. I remember the ldl/hdl ratio being very good and my triglycerides were fine.

My question is, wtf should I do now? I refused statins a couple of years ago, and I dont think im going to change my mind any time soon. Ive decided to change my training a bit utilizing giant sets and some moderate/high intensity cardio to burn some more body fat and get into better cardiovascular condition (first workout actually felt great.Got really winded after the 3rd exercise of each giant set.)

Ive also modified my diet eating less saturated fats and more “healthy” fats.Fpr instance, rather than my typical breakfast of 3 whole eggs, a few slices of bacon and some almonds, im now just eating a protein shake with some natural peanut butter and greens+. Im also upping my fish oil supplementation to 6 grams a day (from 2.) Does this sound like a sound strategy? I know many of you are going to say “eggs and bacon dont raise cholesterol, etc,” but I have to change something in my diet because my cholesterol levels arent getting any lower. Am I just overreacting?

My dad has had near 300 cholesterol for as long as I remember, always stressed over it, and is currently a relatively health 74yr old. Thanks for reading this overly long post.

[/quote]

High cholesterol doesn’t cause CHD, nor does diet influence cholesterol levels beyond a few percent.

Read uffe ravnskovs work or anythony colpo.

Hih cholesterol can be an innocent bystander of something else or your high cholesterol levels may be totally innocent, meaning your healthy.

http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=7005
http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=4231
http://breadandmoney.com/thefreeradical/?page_id=52


www.thincs.org

Well, more salads, fruit, and oats for breakfast brought mine down considerably. If you’re really concerned, you could try to change your diet, and/or add more physical activity.

But as everyone can tell you, there are genetic factors (cf. your dad) that also affect cholesterol numbers.

I’ve heard plenty of bad things about the side-effects of statins; not sure they’re worth the risk.

Well, you can delude yourself with the 2-3 guys out there that tout despite mountains of evidence that high chol (LDL-C) does not link to CAD or you can deal with it.

Some people with low cholesterol get CAD, some people with high chol don’t get CAD. It is mostly a function of the oxydation status and the blood vessel wall.

A ‘‘smooth’’ vessel wall (from various genetic causes, membrane proteins, blood glucose, circulating cytokines and so on) will get much less chol integrated into it than one that is not so ‘‘smooth’’. If you vessel wall tend to be atherogenic, then you don’t need much chol to develop plaques, but if you have more it’ll just build up faster.

If you are a very lucky bastard you could be resistant to atherogenic chol…but that’s like betting you’re the one guy who won’t get lung cancer from smoking 3 packs a day for 20 years…you could be but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Luckily you’ve been trying to loose weight and adjust diet and training the first line recommendation for cholesterol therapies.

You will see 30-something fit military guys who run and train all the time, coming in the ER with and MI and it makes you wonder, hum diet and exercise…yeah.

But as it as been mentionned one of the single most important factor is genetics, how much cholesterol have you been programmed to produce.

Adding soluble fibers such as psyllium and oats can help reducing your numbers, usually nothing impressive but something in the arsenal nonetheless. Fishoils pretty much don’t do anything of significance for chol but are good for CAD and triglycerides nonetheless and are part of a heart healthy diet.

Now in terms of cholesterol lowering. The only very effective means of reducing serum cholesterol is through HMG-CoA reductase inhibition.

Various compounds do this. Statins being the most powerfull and effective at doing this (40-60% reduction) and are antioxidant agents for cholesterol.

Initially, statins were isolated from red yeast rice. People would eat red yeast rice and get a dose of Mevacor anyway, the compound was isolated and modified and synthetics are now very powerfull.

Tetradecythioacetic acid, a novel fatty acid being reseach shows a lot of potention as an hypolipidemic agent (trig and chol) and potentially as a fat loss agent and an anti-oxidant. However it is hypothesised to reduce chol through HMG-CaA red. inhibition and reduce trig through increase beta-oxidation.

So it basically blocks cholesterol formation through the same enzyme.

Ezetimbe could be an option, it blocks cholesterol absorption. It is clearly not as powerfull, about 20% reduction in chol and boost efficacy of statins by 15-20% if I remember correctly.

Then there are various bile sequestring agents that nobody takes anymore because of the ‘‘bowel symptoms’’.

Niacin is in the middle for chol lowering (number 1 for HDL boosting on the other hand). 10-20 % reduction in LDL and like 15-35 % for HDL boost.)

But the itchiness is a bitch at the beginning (trust me I know, an you look like you’ve been sunburned badddd) and the long acting one (less itchiness) you can’t take as much because of liver toxicity and you need to take an aspirine around 30 min before to diminish the itchiness and skin vasodilatiation.

It also does tend to increase blood glucose, not much but a bit (and mostly an issue in diabetics) (not supposed to be significant according to new research)

Then there are all the little moderatly effective things like green tea (EGCG) and myriads of other things being investigated and found lacking.

Personally, I do not see this situation as an either/or situation. I would do all the lifestyle changes (diet, fat loss, green tea, psyllium, oats, exercice - lots of cardio(sadly)) and on a medication to get the best cardioprotective environement to try and slowly reverse years of potential damage.

Hell, if I could get a statin I’d probably take one 5 mg of Crestor once every 2-3 days even without high chol just as an anti-oxydant and some little prevetion and maybe slow down progression of CAD.

Here on T-Nation we tend to pick an anti-mainstream approach to things and generally this gets people in, we feel we know better than every one else on the planet, more than all the ‘‘big pharma paid researchers’’ because someone took one or two articles from some PhD who was put down by ‘‘The Man’’ for telling ‘‘The Truth’’ and a few plausible sounding theories and there you go. Statins are evil.

Anyway, end of rant. Do what you feel is best for you, its your vessels and your heart. Remember, all these intervetions (excepts maybe high-dose newer gen. Statins wich could potentially reverse plaque formation) only slow down progression of disease.

So being 32 you don’t have many years before you reach the sudden death/angina threshold (should you have CAD/Stroke history in your family) (which usually is in the late 40s to 50’s). But on the good note, if its not sudden death, you could be thrombolysed, ballon ‘‘angioplasted’’, eventually stented and then CABGed and we are getting ever better at it so its not all bad.

Anyway, glad to hear you wanna do something about it.

AlexH.

Eat more fish oil, almonds, olive oil, vegetables, etc.

Dandalex: Good post! I do think we, at T-Nation, sometimes strive to wade up-current when the way home is down-river.

Here’s my anecdotal experience:

During my teenage years I played a lot of basketball and mountain biked. I didn’t lift weights, but participated in some form of exercise almost every day. The food I ate was the typical Spanish Mediterranean diet with plenty of vegetables, legumes and cereals, and somewhat less meat, poultry and fish. I never ate much fruit and would eat any junk food I could get my hands on as I was almost always hungry. I was very lean, and my cholesterol was usually 180-200.

In my 20s I didn’t exercise as much as I should (thanks to college), and did very little in the weight room. I had almost no clue about nutrition. My cholesterol was in the low 200s.

Fast forward to my late 20s. I learnt a lot about nutrition and stayed in the gym consistently for a year. Cut down on carbs considerably, practically eliminated processed foods from my diet, upped my protein consumption and started tracking what I ate with nutrition software. Lifted weights and did cardio. Went on a high-protein, low-carb, moderate-fat diet (from a Tom Venuto book) and lost a whole bunch of fat pounds in 2-3 months. Went to get my cholesterol tested at the end of 2005 and was at 150, with 57 for HDL. Triglycerides had also gone down. I was very pleased with myself.

Obviously, I implemented a lot of changes at the same time, so it might be hard to tell if there was a single contributing factor responsible for the drop. But read on.

After this I decided to bulk up beginning in Jan 2006, per T-Nation requirements. While keeping a relatively clean diet, I upped my carb consumption considerably and did very little (if any) cardio, simply lifting 3-4 days a week. I got stronger, put on about 25 lbs of weight, and when I got my cholesterol tested towards the end of 2006 I was at 220 (HDL remained the same). Triglycerides had also gone way up and were over the max limit.

In Jan 2007 I lowered my carb consumption while keeping everything else the same and lost some pounds; then I went on the V-Diet and lost some more pounds. After coming off the V I’ve been eating almost a paleo diet, getting my carbs from veggies and fruits (and from PWO drinks). I’ve managed to put on a bit of muscle but am now about 15 lbs lighter than at the beginning of the year. I’ve also started doing cardio again.

I had a blood test 2 weeks ago and I’m waiting for the results, but I feel confident that my cholesterol will be below 200 and my triglycerides in check. I will continuing to eat pseudo paleo for the next few months and will get another blood test in July.

What I’ve learnt from all this: Diet does influence my cholesterol levels. I’m pretty sure cardio helps, but the main factor is diet.

In July, after having tested out a few eating styles and being able to compare their effect on my blood profile, I will decide what my nutrition will look like for the rest of my life.

This is me and my personal experiment.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:

Adding soluble fibers such as psyllium and oats can help reducing your numbers, usually nothing impressive but something in the arsenal nonetheless. Fishoils pretty much don’t do anything of significance for chol but are good for CAD and triglycerides nonetheless and are part of a heart healthy diet.

Now in terms of cholesterol lowering. The only very effective means of reducing serum cholesterol is through HMG-CoA reductase inhibition.

Various compounds do this. Statins being the most powerfull and effective at doing this (40-60% reduction) and are antioxidant agents for cholesterol.

Initially, statins were isolated from red yeast rice. People would eat red yeast rice and get a dose of Mevacor anyway, the compound was isolated and modified and synthetics are now very powerfull.

Tetradecythioacetic acid, a novel fatty acid being reseach shows a lot of potention as an hypolipidemic agent (trig and chol) and potentially as a fat loss agent and an anti-oxidant. However it is hypothesised to reduce chol through HMG-CaA red. inhibition and reduce trig through increase beta-oxidation.

Hell, if I could get a statin I’d probably take one 5 mg of Crestor once every 2-3 days even without high chol just as an anti-oxydant and some little prevetion and maybe slow down progression of CAD.

Here on T-Nation we tend to pick an anti-mainstream approach to things and generally this gets people in, we feel we know better than every one else on the planet, more than all the ‘‘big pharma paid researchers’’ because someone took one or two articles from some PhD who was put down by ‘‘The Man’’ for telling ‘‘The Truth’’ and a few plausible sounding theories and there you go. Statins are evil.

Anyway, end of rant. Do what you feel is best for you, its your vessels and your heart. Remember, all these intervetions (excepts maybe high-dose newer gen. Statins wich could potentially reverse plaque formation) only slow down progression of disease.

its not all bad.

Anyway, glad to hear you wanna do something about it.

AlexH.[/quote]

I disagree. Fish does lower cholesterol levels. There have been studies done on this. That is why it is prescribed in England by many doctors for the very same reason. In fact, numerus studies can show that fish oil also lowers heart disease death rates. Cholesterol medication, on the other hand, says that they do not prevent heart disease.

Well, that is one reason why most people lower their cholesterol when they’re at dangerously high levels in the first place. You can easily lower your cholesterol without statin drugs. The only problem is that statin drugs are quick fixes that people want. Quick fixes don’t always reverse a lifetime of abuse to the body. Sometimes the more healthier approach is to do it through diet and lifestyle changes.

It has nothing to do with “conspiracy theories”, although I believe that these drugs are pure scams and people can and already do lower their cholesterol drastically without statin drugs. Fish oil is a much safer and more effective alternative to lowering your cholesterol than statin drugs.

[quote] Fish oil is … more effective alternative to lowering your cholesterol than statin drugs.
[/quote]

REALLY? Proof please…how many points reduction have clinical studies shown? How many patients included in these studies?

In any case, those who say there is no evidence of the efficacy of statins are insane.

The Heart Protection Study included over 20,000 patients. Perhaps some of you should Goggle it.

However, I do agree that in many cases you can lower without statins…I have done so myself…reducing my LDL from 175 to 130 through daily oatmeal, fish oil and increased cardio(no reduction in red meat or eggs)…my prescription bottle of Vytorin remains sealed until I now longer can control my own levels (130 being technically high but I am comfortable with that level)

You obviously misread what was being said. It depends on how the effectiveness outweighs the risks involved. Most of the studies that were done on statin drugs being effective was combined with a somewhat healthy diet, not just the drugs alone or with a diet of just processed junk.

No one said that there were no evidence of the efficacy with statin drugs. What is being said is that it is a much safer route for the more health cautious; and that a quick fix isn’t always the healthiest rout to take.

[quote]BJ* wrote:
Fish oil is … more effective alternative to lowering your cholesterol than statin drugs.

REALLY? Proof please…how many points reduction have clinical studies shown? How many patients included in these studies?

In any case, those who say there is no evidence of the efficacy of statins are insane.

The Heart Protection Study included over 20,000 patients. Perhaps some of you should Goggle it.

However, I do agree that in many cases you can lower without statins…I have done so myself…reducing my LDL from 175 to 130 through daily oatmeal, fish oil and increased cardio(no reduction in red meat or eggs)…my prescription bottle of Vytorin remains sealed until I now longer can control my own levels (130 being technically high but I am comfortable with that level)

[/quote]

I cannot add much to the discussion about the safety and efficacy of statins at preventing heart disease. I have, however, been on cholesterol medications for a long time, and can comment reasonably on the side effects of the drugs.

Un-medicated, my total cholesterol sits around 400 (This is very high). My HDL is typically low (~25). Therefor, I am twice screwed. My cholesterol is barely influenced by my diet and exercise- It is just genetically high.

Although you may guess from my 400 total that I am a very old man, I am in fact only 22 years old. I have been on a whole bunch of medications for cholesterol beginning with these awful “Cholly (sp?) bars” at age 4. I’ve also been on zetia, welchol, zocor, and vytorin (zocor and zetia), as well as various combinations of the above. I am currently on vytorin, which is a combination of zocor (a statin) and zetia.

I’ve been on vytorin for about 2 years. Side effects to date? None. No muscle pain/weakness, liver function is fine. My medicated cholesterol total is around 240. My HDL is still low.


My cardiologist is a terrific doctor. I have great trust in him. He has been studying cardiology his entire adult life, and is convinced that this medication will improve my long term health.

Ultimately, of course, I am responsible for my own health. But can I make a more educated decision based on reading a few articles that slander statins than I can by relying on the wisdom of my doctor and my conversations with him? I don’t think so.


I’ll add a little of my personal feelings here. As I said, I am 22 years old. I am going to have to be on drugs a really long time. That absolutely scares me. Can my liver survive 60 years of daily bombardment with drugs?

I am very fortunate to have a sister who is nearly a doctor (last year of medical school). When I relayed my fears to her she told me something like, "Yeah, taking statins everyday may affect your liver. However, the liver is the most resilient organ in the body, and can recover from significant damage. More importantly, liver function is checked whenever I get a blood test.

As long as I keep regular checks of my cholesterol and liver function (about every 6 months), I have virtually no chance of long term liver damage. Furthermore, by the time I get a bit older it is likely that new drugs will be developed that won’t affect the liver at all. However, if I don’t take the drugs it is pretty likely I will have heart problems."

Very unlikely liver damage or likely heart damage? This made the decision easy for me.

-Pat

I tried- unsuccessfully :slight_smile: -to keep this post short. If anyone wants more information about my experience or wants to discuss this further, or if you are a 20 year old kid who is worried about being on drugs your whole life, please don’t hesitate to PM me.

[quote]pat7337 wrote:
I cannot add much to the discussion about the safety and efficacy of statins at preventing heart disease. I have, however, been on cholesterol medications for a long time, and can comment reasonably on the side effects of the drugs.

Un-medicated, my total cholesterol sits around 400 (This is very high). My HDL is typically low (~25). Therefor, I am twice screwed. My cholesterol is barely influenced by my diet and exercise- It is just genetically high.

Although you may guess from my 400 total that I am a very old man, I am in fact only 22 years old. I have been on a whole bunch of medications for cholesterol beginning with these awful “Cholly (sp?) bars” at age 4. I’ve also been on zetia, welchol, zocor, and vytorin (zocor and zetia), as well as various combinations of the above. I am currently on vytorin, which is a combination of zocor (a statin) and zetia.

I’ve been on vytorin for about 2 years. Side effects to date? None. No muscle pain/weakness, liver function is fine. My medicated cholesterol total is around 240. My HDL is still low.


My cardiologist is a terrific doctor. I have great trust in him. He has been studying cardiology his entire adult life, and is convinced that this medication will improve my long term health.

Ultimately, of course, I am responsible for my own health. But can I make a more educated decision based on reading a few articles that slander statins than I can by relying on the wisdom of my doctor and my conversations with him? I don’t think so.


I’ll add a little of my personal feelings here. As I said, I am 22 years old. I am going to have to be on drugs a really long time. That absolutely scares me. Can my liver survive 60 years of daily bombardment with drugs?

I am very fortunate to have a sister who is nearly a doctor (last year of medical school). When I relayed my fears to her she told me something like, "Yeah, taking statins everyday may affect your liver. However, the liver is the most resilient organ in the body, and can recover from significant damage. More importantly, liver function is checked whenever I get a blood test.

As long as I keep regular checks of my cholesterol and liver function (about every 6 months), I have virtually no chance of long term liver damage. Furthermore, by the time I get a bit older it is likely that new drugs will be developed that won’t affect the liver at all. However, if I don’t take the drugs it is pretty likely I will have heart problems."

Very unlikely liver damage or likely heart damage? This made the decision easy for me.

-Pat

I tried- unsuccessfully :slight_smile: -to keep this post short. If anyone wants more information about my experience or wants to discuss this further, or if you are a 20 year old kid who is worried about being on drugs your whole life, please don’t hesitate to PM me.

[/quote]

You’re only 22. You do not exactly know what the outcome may be. No doubt the liver is resilient and can recover from significant damage, but I don’t think that a person who gets dignosed with liver failure after 60 of using statin drugs will be able to recover. If that were the case, alcoholics wouldn’t need liver transplants and wouldn’t die of liver failure.

Are you going to drop dead or develop heart or liver problems by using a statin over night? Probably not. How about for 50-60 years? Maybe. My question isn’t that people like you are using these drugs for short term use only, but for long term use also.

Is it your goal to be on cholesterol medication for two years, or even your whole life? Or do you eventually want to come off? You have to look at the big picture and ask yourself these questions. 135 is fine. That may very well be aroudn your natural level. I don’t see a point to taking more statins just because it’s not lower than that. That doesn’t mean you’re unhealthy.

I’m also curious about your weight.
Are you over weight or obese? Do you currently have diabetes?

[quote]pat7337 wrote:
I cannot add much to the discussion about the safety and efficacy of statins at preventing heart disease. I have, however, been on cholesterol medications for a long time, and can comment reasonably on the side effects of the drugs.

Un-medicated, my total cholesterol sits around 400 (This is very high). My HDL is typically low (~25). Therefor, I am twice screwed. My cholesterol is barely influenced by my diet and exercise- It is just genetically high.

Although you may guess from my 400 total that I am a very old man, I am in fact only 22 years old. I have been on a whole bunch of medications for cholesterol beginning with these awful “Cholly (sp?) bars” at age 4. I’ve also been on zetia, welchol, zocor, and vytorin (zocor and zetia), as well as various combinations of the above. I am currently on vytorin, which is a combination of zocor (a statin) and zetia.

I’ve been on vytorin for about 2 years. Side effects to date? None. No muscle pain/weakness, liver function is fine. My medicated cholesterol total is around 240. My HDL is still low.


My cardiologist is a terrific doctor. I have great trust in him. He has been studying cardiology his entire adult life, and is convinced that this medication will improve my long term health.

Ultimately, of course, I am responsible for my own health. But can I make a more educated decision based on reading a few articles that slander statins than I can by relying on the wisdom of my doctor and my conversations with him? I don’t think so.


I’ll add a little of my personal feelings here. As I said, I am 22 years old. I am going to have to be on drugs a really long time. That absolutely scares me. Can my liver survive 60 years of daily bombardment with drugs?

I am very fortunate to have a sister who is nearly a doctor (last year of medical school). When I relayed my fears to her she told me something like, "Yeah, taking statins everyday may affect your liver. However, the liver is the most resilient organ in the body, and can recover from significant damage. More importantly, liver function is checked whenever I get a blood test.

As long as I keep regular checks of my cholesterol and liver function (about every 6 months), I have virtually no chance of long term liver damage. Furthermore, by the time I get a bit older it is likely that new drugs will be developed that won’t affect the liver at all. However, if I don’t take the drugs it is pretty likely I will have heart problems."

Very unlikely liver damage or likely heart damage? This made the decision easy for me.

-Pat

I tried- unsuccessfully :slight_smile: -to keep this post short. If anyone wants more information about my experience or wants to discuss this further, or if you are a 20 year old kid who is worried about being on drugs your whole life, please don’t hesitate to PM me.

[/quote]

I know a guy that lowered his chol by using red yeast rice suppliments.

I don’t know anything about it. Has anyone used red yeast rice?

[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
pat7337 wrote:
I cannot add much to the discussion about the safety and efficacy of statins at preventing heart disease. I have, however, been on cholesterol medications for a long time, and can comment reasonably on the side effects of the drugs.

Un-medicated, my total cholesterol sits around 400 (This is very high). My HDL is typically low (~25). Therefor, I am twice screwed. My cholesterol is barely influenced by my diet and exercise- It is just genetically high.

Although you may guess from my 400 total that I am a very old man, I am in fact only 22 years old. I have been on a whole bunch of medications for cholesterol beginning with these awful “Cholly (sp?) bars” at age 4. I’ve also been on zetia, welchol, zocor, and vytorin (zocor and zetia), as well as various combinations of the above. I am currently on vytorin, which is a combination of zocor (a statin) and zetia.

I’ve been on vytorin for about 2 years. Side effects to date? None. No muscle pain/weakness, liver function is fine. My medicated cholesterol total is around 240. My HDL is still low.


My cardiologist is a terrific doctor. I have great trust in him. He has been studying cardiology his entire adult life, and is convinced that this medication will improve my long term health.

Ultimately, of course, I am responsible for my own health. But can I make a more educated decision based on reading a few articles that slander statins than I can by relying on the wisdom of my doctor and my conversations with him? I don’t think so.


I’ll add a little of my personal feelings here. As I said, I am 22 years old. I am going to have to be on drugs a really long time. That absolutely scares me. Can my liver survive 60 years of daily bombardment with drugs?

I am very fortunate to have a sister who is nearly a doctor (last year of medical school). When I relayed my fears to her she told me something like, "Yeah, taking statins everyday may affect your liver. However, the liver is the most resilient organ in the body, and can recover from significant damage. More importantly, liver function is checked whenever I get a blood test.

As long as I keep regular checks of my cholesterol and liver function (about every 6 months), I have virtually no chance of long term liver damage. Furthermore, by the time I get a bit older it is likely that new drugs will be developed that won’t affect the liver at all. However, if I don’t take the drugs it is pretty likely I will have heart problems."

Very unlikely liver damage or likely heart damage? This made the decision easy for me.

-Pat

I tried- unsuccessfully :slight_smile: -to keep this post short. If anyone wants more information about my experience or wants to discuss this further, or if you are a 20 year old kid who is worried about being on drugs your whole life, please don’t hesitate to PM me.

You’re only 22. You do not exactly know what the outcome may be. No doubt the liver is a resilient and can recover from significant damage, but I don’t think that a person who gets dignosed with liver failure after 60 of using statin drugs will be able to recover. If that were the case, alcoholics wouldn’t need liver transplants and wouldn’t die of liver failure.

Are you going to drop dead or develop heart or liver problems by using a statin over night? Probably not. How about for 50-60 years? Maybe. My question isn’t that people like you are using these drugs for short term use only, but for long term use also.

Is it your goal to be on cholesterol medication for two years, or even your whole life? Or do you eventually want to come off? You have to look at the big picture and ask yourself these questions.[/quote]

I think you’re being extremely unrealisitic here. He no doubt should be taking plenty of fish oil and optimizing his cholesterol in every natural way possible. But that’s just not enough. Natural remedies just ain’t as efffective as medication.

For someone genetically predisposed to such high LDL and low HDL, medication is a must. For life. The benefits [living] far outweigh the risks. That said, everyone who can control their cholesterol without medication should do so.

Fish oil shown to raise cholesterol and offer protection to CHD.

[quote]AllBizNiz wrote:
My dad has had near 300 cholesterol for as long as I remember, always stressed over it, and is currently a relatively health 74yr old. Thanks for reading this overly long post.
[/quote]

This is the main point i’m getting at;
HIGH CHOLESTEROL DOESN’T ALWAYS MEAN YOUR UNHEALTHY.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:

Well, you can delude yourself with the 2-3 guys out there that tout despite mountains of evidence that high chol (LDL-C) does not link to CAD or you can deal with it.

A ‘‘smooth’’ vessel wall (from various genetic causes, membrane proteins, blood glucose, circulating cytokines and so on) will get much less chol integrated into it than one that is not so ‘‘smooth’’. If you vessel wall tend to be atherogenic, then you don’t need much chol to develop plaques, but if you have more it’ll just build up faster. [/quote]

Where is the sound science supporting your claims?

Many studies show it doesn’t matter how much cholesterol is in circulation, atherogenisis will be similar.

If the guy wants to take statins it will increase his mortality rate because of his age.

Statins reduce non fatal heart attacks from thromboxane inhibitation whilst increasing mortality from diseases such as cancer.

Please invest in any of the books i recommended, true knowledge is needed for your own benefit.

[quote]BJ* wrote:
Fish oil is … more effective alternative to lowering your cholesterol than statin drugs.

REALLY? Proof please…how many points reduction have clinical studies shown? How many patients included in these studies?

In any case, those who say there is no evidence of the efficacy of statins are insane.

The Heart Protection Study included over 20,000 patients. Perhaps some of you should Goggle it.

However, I do agree that in many cases you can lower without statins…I have done so myself…reducing my LDL from 175 to 130 through daily oatmeal, fish oil and increased cardio(no reduction in red meat or eggs)…my prescription bottle of Vytorin remains sealed until I now longer can control my own levels (130 being technically high but I am comfortable with that level)
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You have no proof that diet lowered your cholesterol here because, you increased cardio. You could have been more stressed the first time you were tested, stress can increase cholesterol by up to 50%.